42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 12:25 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Blah blah blah... Try and focus or I'll have to stop discussing with you. I know what I asked for, and it was not your OPINION. Capice?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 12:31 pm
@revelette2,
Be specific in your accusations here. To my knowledge, Snowden has not reveal led anything concerning targeted eavesdropping of terrorists which was not already known. Remember that OBL for instance avoided all telephone exchange, because he already knew that these we're being monitored.
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 12:39 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Blah blah blah... Try and focus or I'll have to stop discussing with you. I know what I asked for, and it was not your OPINION. Capice?


You absolutely asked for my opinion, Olivier. What else could I possibly give to a question like:

Why does the law consider it unfair to allow a jury to hear things unfiltered by a judge?

You have gotten on a merry-go-round...and cannot figure a way off. So you are trying your regular thing: Pretending there is something wrong with the response I gave.

I tried to let you off easy...and gave an easy answer which would be easy to just let ride. Instead...you insisted.

Now you are all screwed up...and your attempts to bluster your way though this must seem like crap even to you.

So if you want to "stop discussing with me"...stop. You'd be much better off...because you simply are not up to the job of finishing the kinds of things you start.

You understand???

(If you are going to use the Italian form...try spelling it correctly!)
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 12:47 pm
@revelette2,
You posted,
Quote:
Quote:
But Snowden did much more than that. The documents that he gave the Washington Post’s Barton Gellman and the Guardian’s Glenn Greenwald have, so far, furnished stories about the NSA’s interception of email traffic, mobile phone calls, and radio transmissions of Taliban fighters in Pakistan’s northwest territories; about an operation to gauge the loyalties of CIA recruits in Pakistan; about NSA email intercepts to assist intelligence assessments of what’s going on inside Iran; about NSA surveillance of cellphone calls “worldwide,” an effort that (in the Post’s words) “allows it to look for unknown associates of known intelligence targets by tracking people whose movements intersect.”


These charges. capisce?
Olivier5
 
  -1  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 01:04 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I asked for facts, about which you had no clue.
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 01:11 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

I asked for facts.


No you didn't.

You were asking about why the judicial system of the United States has a particular protocol.

I have never given any indication that I am a lawyer or a legal scholar. (I most assuredly am neither.)

If you were looking for facts on the question...you would have directed your question to Joe or Tico...or you would have looked the subject up in Google...or enrolled in a law school in the US.

You asked me a question of that sort in an Internet forum...and all you were going to get was an opinion. You knew that...and you WERE asking for an opinion.

I told you that outright...after giving you a chance to jump off the merry-go-round before it got moving too fast.

But nooooo!


https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2fxnjYvedVoTApEPX2rnCcOAMe_o89-C8tZtU7MCi7Ri9Rcye
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 01:20 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I asked for facts, as a way to prove your ignorance of such facts. That's perfectly ok. You should go off your merry-go-round once in a while.
revelette2
 
  3  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 01:24 pm
@cicerone imposter,
There are no charges, simply stating the information the press has revealed so far which is available for anyone to check out.
revelette2
 
  4  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 01:36 pm
@Olivier5,
Well, not before we had had two years worth of phone conversations.

Quote:
Then in 2008 Richard Clarke made mention of it in a “blip” in his book. At the time he was the highest former government official to even acknowledge the issue. He described it this way:

“Osama bin Laden once routinely communicated over a satellite telephone. The conversations gave us great insight into him and what he was doing (and, interestingly into his relations with his mother).

Then one day someone, who obviously was not thinking, revealed the fact to a newspaper that, exercising no discretion, published it. The calls stopped almost immediately.

Bin laden is now (remember this book was written in 2008) thought to use only face to face communications to avoid interception and tracking. I sometimes wonder if we could have learned enough about 9/11 plot to stop it had Bin Laden continued to use his satellite phone, had the newspapers not published that story, had the leaker been more observant of the laws” (pg 105).


source

It was simply a slip of the tongue somewhere.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 01:37 pm
@revelette2,
Okay, I see that report from the WSJ and others.

But, here's an interesting discussion on "Snowden clemency" from the national review.
Quote:
Schweitzer is a shrewd politician, and one assumes that he has given his position on Snowden some thought. He appears to have concluded that defending Snowden will strengthen his civil libertarian bona fides, and that Kaplan’s contention that Snowden’s revelations materially damaged America’s ability to achieve legitimate foreign policy objectives is not enough to merit serious punishment. Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul, another future presidential contender, has called for lenient treatment of Snowden, if not clemency. There are many smart people who agree with Kaplan on the one hand and Schweitzer on the other, and though I can’t imagine that the Obama administration will embrace the idea of lenient punishment or clemency, there are plenty of mainstream Democrats who favor it. I’m going to interview two very smart people on this subject on Friday, and I’ll be sure to report back.


On with the show!
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 01:54 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

I asked for facts, as a way to prove your ignorance of such facts. That's perfectly ok. You should go off your merry-go-round once in a while.


You were no more asking for facts than you were asking for elephants, Olivier. The only thing you could possibly get from me on the judicial system...were opinions.

My opinion is that I think the system is fine...not perfect by any means, but fine.

As regards the specific that started this merry-go-round that you are trapped on...I think the judge should be able to filter what the jury hears...and I think the defendant should have the right to appeal any particular judge's rulings on what is or is not to be presented.

It all sounds right on the mark to me...but I will acknowledge that it is the system that has been in place for all my life, so I am probably prejudice in its favor. I acknowledge that people from other places might think their system makes better sense.

That fellow Edward Snowden, by the way, is charged with several serious crimes HERE IN THE UNITED STATES...and the authorities here will undoubtedly attempt to get him back here to face trial on those charges. The rules of this country will apply...which include the judge filtering what the jury can and cannot hear.

I want to see Snowden get a fair trial.

Jump, Olivier, jump!!!
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 02:20 pm
@revelette2,
So way before 2001, OBL already knew enough about wire-tapping to avoid being intercepted. What makes you think Snowden has given away anything that was not out in the open already?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 02:23 pm
@Olivier5,
Good question.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  3  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 02:33 pm
@Olivier5,
He knew it because someone leaked it, just like Snowden has leaked information other than just privacy concerns.
revelette2
 
  3  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 02:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Big whoop.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 02:37 pm
I doubt anyone here knows for certain what the value of the information Snowden released was to people who may intend us...or allies...harm.

Bottom line, though, is that he is not charged with a particular value given to a particular person or organization.

He is charged with stealing classified documents...and distributing them to people not authorized to receive them.

Those are the charges for which he must answer...and for which I hope he gets a fair trial.

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that the prosecutors will NEVER introduce anything about the value of the information to people who might intend us harm...and if they tried, it is not inconceivable that a judge might rule that such information has no pertinence to the issue being adjudicated and exclude it...filter it, so to speak.

Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 02:43 pm
@revelette2,
So that 90s leaker deserves to be prosecuted more than Snowden...
0 Replies
 
One Eyed Mind
 
  3  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 03:07 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Sorry Frank, but who watches the watch men? You don't understand the illusion of ruling and the illusion of power. That's why you go back in circles, because you refuse to go against your deceitful country.
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 03:11 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

It is waste of time trying to reason with people with closed minds who refuse to see outside their own preconceived views.



You mean like people who write things that are totally false like this?

Rev wrote:
Personally I do not like to think one man is in charge of deciding what will be harmful and will not.


One man is not in charge, but your closed mind and preconceptions stopped you bothering with facts.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Tue 9 Sep, 2014 03:11 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
One Eyed Mind wrote:

Sorry Frank, but who watches the watch men? You don't understand the illusion of ruling and the illusion of power. That's why you go back in circles, because you refuse to go against your deceitful country.


Have no idea of what in hell this post of yours is supposed to mean, but I thank you from the bottom of my heart for joining "them."

Whew!

Thank god you didn't chime in on my side.
 

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