Snowdon is a dummy

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:

I think they are changing some things. It would be fine with me if it were dropped. My biggest gripe is from folks such as yourself who have claimed it was illegal without any legal basis for it as of yet. A couple of court rulings don't really render a legal consequence because the next one will cancel out the other.

Even that is part of the problem and the frustration at US institutions expressed by ci. Why oh why can't the Supreme Court rule on the constitutionality of the most controversial programs right away? Instead, the issue will linger in legalese limbo for years to come, with plenty of time for building an industry of legal smokescreens and lobbies and personal files on judges and justices and what not... So that when the issue finally comes to the SC, there'll be a huge set of claims and counter-claims crowding out common sense and obscuring the debate, and--perish the thought--the full detail of each and every justice's sexual preferences and financial turpitudes will be at the NSA's fingertips...

Oh, I see...the judicial process of the United States should be changed in order for you and ci to seem more rational!

Give it a break, Olivier.

My guess is that almost none of the items your hero, Edward Snowden, revealed will be found to be illegal or unconstitutional.

I am willing to take ci's word for what we should think about Snowden...as he set it out during the first couple of pages of this long thread...although I would not call Snowden a traitor, as ci did.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Oliver, I am going to ask you a direct question and I would like a direct answer, not your opinion. Did Snowdon break an American law when he stole classified material and gave it to a foreign journalist. No opinion as to right or wrong just fact.

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Meantime, I'm almost done with the not very engaging novel of later Elmore Leonard,
Djibuti; for anyone who tries, better in the second half. I might end up liking it but not yet.

I take some part of his stuff as true.
(Me, I knew some eritreans and ethiopians, but not recently)

I don't know the area.

However - I learned a lot reading this and I'm not done yet.

I recommend it, as a scope. Or one scope, and not just for that place.

So far I'm annoyed, but that is my reading way.

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@ossobuco,

This book is actually relevant, or so I think.

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@Frank Apisa,

Give him a break Frank. He wants something to pass on to his friends in the terror organizations so yes he wants direct confirmation.

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@ossobuco,

This all matters as it explains complications.

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@RABEL222,

Who's going to deny that? Without Snowden, nobody would know that our government broke the laws of our land. Why are you going to square 1?

Here's a link that confirms what most of us have been saying; the NSA's mass data collection hasn't really been that helpful. The FBI was already on their tails (Zari and partner) before they were notified by the NSA. The FBI had information on their travel to Pakistan in August of that year. As a matter of fact, the FBI is the one who gave NSA Zari's cellphone number.

http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/download/01-14-14-record-submission-leahy

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@cicerone imposter,

Oh, look, you are still arguing the same stuff.

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@engineer,

These would be my sentiments.

Snowden is being treated like Robin Hood; only the most hateful creatures could ever allow themselves to let a government convince them that they are fighting for a non-biased cause.

-The same government that uses the oil of other countries, but has not used its own oil yet.- Oil from other countries that costed innocent lives, pointless wars for the poor at heart, for compensatory riches.

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@cicerone imposter,

I dident read the whole thing but I did read enough to see that intercepted phone and internet communications that were intercepted helped. I cant help but remember that Bush and his gang had been warned about terroists planing something big which they ignored and the FBI and CIA had information which they refused to share with one another that may have stopped 9/11, so in my opinion the more information we have the better chance we have to thwart a future disaster. Or are you one of those who think 4000 lives is a small price to pay for freedom to talk on a phone or own to guns.

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@One Eyed Mind,

Sorry fellow but this has been going on since man evolved from apes into MAN?

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

Quote:

so in my opinion the more information we have the better chance we have to thwart a future disaster.

Of course burying the information you are looking for in an ocean of information bigger then tens of million or so Libraries of Congress worth of data in Utah is going to be helpful.

Quote:

Or are you one of those who think 4000 lives is a small price to pay for freedom to talk on a phone or own to guns.

Damn small in fact a very very very tiny price to paid compare to setting up a surveillance state that is not comparable to having a democracy even if a surveillance state would be useful in stopping terrorist attacks which it had not as yet proven to be.

Strange is it not that we would never dream of lowing the road speed limit to say 30 MPH to save 35,000 lives a year but giving up our freedoms is not worth taking a chance on having a few thousand deaths at least in some people opinion.

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@Frank Apisa,

No, that's not what I'm saying. My balls are so large they wouldn't fit in your big mouth, Frank. Assuming you'd like them in there, which I suspect you would.

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@RABEL222,

I do not conform to the "old" fallacy. Old issues lead to new issues; being old does not remove the imperative; it removes the interest. Between you and I, it would not be humane to let your interest neglect the imperative.

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@One Eyed Mind,

What in the hell are you talking about.

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@RABEL222,

Quote:

I cant help but remember that Bush and his gang had been warned about terroists planing something big which they ignored and the FBI and CIA had information which they refused to share with one another that may have stopped 9/11,

There's another school of thought regarding the 9/11 under GWB. I, personally, believe it was gross incompetence on Condoleezza Rice behalf. The administration was a fledgling one, only a few months, and Rice was just learning the ropes. What's unforgivable is the PDB (Presidential Daily Briefing) had in bold letters on the first page the warning: "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike" and Rice ignored the admonition. Richard Clarke, the Terrorist Czar, was running around like his hair was on fire saying all chatter point to an attack on US soil by Bin Ladin....he had tried to get in to see W but not until it was too late did he finally get to the president.

Then there is another speculation that the GWB team welcomed the attack so the American people would not object to the administration's planned invasion of Iraq; the plan to invade Iraq was well put into place before 9/11.

There are so many 9/11 conspiracy theories.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Where the Bush gang is concerned I believe all of them. They should all be in jail from Bush on down. The most corrupt administration ever.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

No, that's not what I'm saying. My balls are so large they wouldn't fit in your big mouth, Frank. Assuming you'd like them in there, which I suspect you would.

I really didn't think you would stoop to crap like that. You have no balls (in a figurative sense)...and even less class (in a literal sense.)

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@RABEL222,

Life.

You have much anger and frustration in your words: life is like water and stone; if you do not balance your anger, the characteristics of fire will turn you into stone, while you must let go and transpire your internal fire to relive life's flow.

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@RABEL222,

Quote:

Where the Bush gang is concerned I believe all of them. They should all be in jail from Bush on down. The most corrupt administration ever.

Touché Could not agree more, Rabel.

1 Reply

Snowdon is a dummy

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