42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 04:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I have posted support for my position; all you've done is provide your guesses.

Your inability to understand your own Constitution shows your ignorance.


Once again...in your opinion, I am ignorant.

I'd take an IQ test against you with my house as a stake!

Quote:
I have never - ever - said I'm an authority in the interpretation of our laws. The courts and legal opinions support what I've said, because I used their words - not mine.


Any opinion that does not say that the cases have to work their way through the courts for an opinion to be rendered...is a very poor opinion.

Quote:


Your opinions as always are not worth the cyberspace you waste with your repetitions - ad nauseam.


Yeah...you are another genius I'd take an IQ test against in a New York second.
BillRM
 
  2  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 04:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Unlike you and ci...I can understand that there are subtleties involved here that we here simply are not qualified to decide.


LOL as there already been legal opinions stating that the government programs at issue are unconstitutional including rulings of a least one Federal judge maybe those very clear words are not all that hard to understand after all.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 04:57 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
The USA entire history has been one of relentless exploitation of other countries, interspersed with acts of genocide that were every bit as vicious as the Nazis.

Let's compare with your own country, if you don't mind. Where are you from?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 04:58 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank: I'd take an IQ test against you with my house as a stake

--------

You can't even grasp the fundamentals of English, frank.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:11 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
I mean by all means talk about the vast spying and other actions our government is doing. I hope there is some improvements made in that regard myself. But some here act as the government just is out to get people and have no good intentions behind their actions, however wrong headed said action may be.

Since when do intentions matter? They are subjective, mysterious, hidden. I am sure Napoleon had good intentions, and Hitler too... Bush had good intentions when he invaded Iraq: topple a dictator, destroy WMDs, protect Israel, make a little money on the side with the oil... What's wrong with that, right?

The road to hell is famously paved with good intentions, rev... What matters in the grand scheme of things is the consequences of your actions, not your intentions.

The consequences of mass spying are enormous. The powers invested in the NSA and co are enormous, and we all know that power corrupts.

I have already pointed out that the NSA could be used to steer US politics by exposing the sins and affairs of those politicians the NSA (or its handlers) doesn't like. Therefore democracy is now an empty word in your land.

The NSA and co have already been used to gather industrial / commercial intelligence on international companies. What's preventing the NSA from doing insider trading on a grand scale, with the privileged information they can gather from anyone in the banking sector? Therefore, free trade in a level playing field are but empty words.

The NSA and co have already been used to sabotage climate change negotiations. Having full knowledge of other countries debating and negotiation strategies allowed the US to manipulate the outcome. Therefore, multilateralism is now an empty word. Our kids and grand kids will suffer the consequences, and they will spit on Obama's grave, I imagine.

But this is not about Obama. He will just be remembered as one of the weak leaders that let it happen. The next president and the one after that and the one after that will all have these immense discretionary powers. To bet that none of them will ever abuse them is folly. America is breeding a monster.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I wouldn't want to take your house. Besides, I don't need it to live comfortably for the rest of my life! Stealing your house would be against my morals.

Why don't you have that IQ 'contest' with JTT, who is willing.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:15 pm
@BillRM,
I don't think Frank has the ability to comprehend the English language.
He doesn't understand the Constitution or all the legal opinions that what the NSA is doing is illegal/unConstitutional.

He believes his guesses are more relevant. LOL
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:17 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I've stated why you are ignorant. Challenge what I say about you; I don't need to have you repeat what I say about you.
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:19 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/16/nsa-phone-program_n_4454538.html


A federal judge ruled Monday that the National Security Agency's phone record surveillance program is likely unconstitutional.

U.S. District Court Judge Richard Leon said that the agency's controversial program, first revealed by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden earlier this year, appears to violate the Constitution's Fourth Amendment, which protects Americans against unreasonable searches and seizures. The program collects records of the time and phone numbers involved in every phone call made in the U.S., and allows that database to be queried for connections to suspected terrorists.

"I cannot imagine a more 'indiscriminate' and 'arbitrary invasion' than this systematic and high-tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every single citizen for purposes of querying it and analyzing it without judicial approval," wrote Leon, a George W. Bush appointee, in the ruling.

"Indeed, I have little doubt that the author of our Constitution, James Madison, who cautioned us to beware 'the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power,' would be aghast."

The federal ruling came down after conservative activist Larry Klayman filed a lawsuit against the program in June. The suit claimed that the NSA's surveillance "violates the U.S. Constitution and also federal laws, including, but not limited to, the outrageous breach of privacy, freedom of speech, freedom of association, and the due process rights of American citizens."

Leon largely seemed to agree, ordering the government to stop collecting the phone records of Klayman and another plaintiff, and to destroy the records already collected. But he also stayed that order, giving the government another chance to argue the program doesn't violate the Constitution.

"We've seen the opinion and are studying it. We believe the program is constitutional as previous judges have found," the Justice Department said in a statement.

Klayman's lawsuit was the first against the agency over the phone records program. In October, a separate district judge in New York heard arguments in another lawsuit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union against the phone records program.

In a statement, the ACLU's legal director, Jameel Jaffer, said, "This is a strongly worded and carefully reasoned decision that ultimately concludes, absolutely correctly, that the NSA's call-tracking program can't be squared with the Constitution."

In both cases, the government has argued that a 1979 Supreme Court case supports its contention that once Americans have turned over personal information on whom they have called, and when, to their phone providers, they have lost their claims to privacy.

But Leon said that "present-day circumstances -- the evolutions in the Government's surveillance capabilities, citizens' phone habits, and the relationship between the NSA and telecom companies" -- made the case before him "thoroughly unlike" the 1979 dispute.

Unlike 30 years ago, he said, the phone companies are now operating "what is effectively a joint intelligence-gathering operation with the Government," and our phone call metadata, subject to "almost-Orwellian" government technology, is far more revealing now than it was then.

Leon was unimpressed with the orders from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, established by Congress to rule on the NSA's activities in secret, that have authorized the bulk metadata collection.

When constitutional rights are involved, he said, "Congress should not be able to cut off a citizen's right to judicial review of that Government action simply because it intended for the conduct to remain secret." Congress "may not hang a cloak of secrecy over the Constitution."

In Congress, where members have been debating whether to end the NSA's program, one senator immediately hailed Leon's ruling.

"The ruling underscores what I have argued for years: The bulk collection of Americans' phone records conflicts with Americans' privacy rights under the U.S. Constitution and has failed to make us safer," Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.), a Senate Intelligence Committee member, said in a statement. "We can protect our national security without trampling our constitutional liberties."


Then we have the government The Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board (PCLOB) opinion.......

Quote:


http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2014/jan/23/privacy-civil-liberties-board-nsa-report-text

Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board: report on NSA bulk collection under the Patriot Act – full text
The Obama administration's privacy board has issued a report concluding NSA collection of every US phone record on a daily basis violates the legal rights of Americans and recommends the surveillance program be shut down
Olivier5
 
  3  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Talking to Frank is a waste of time. His strategy is to try and draw the worse out of people, not to argue with them in good faith.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:29 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Unlike you and ci...I can understand that there are subtleties involved here that we here simply are not qualified to decide.


LOL as there already been legal opinions stating that the government programs at issue are unconstitutional including rulings of a least one Federal judge maybe those very clear words are not all that hard to understand after all.


There is a good deal further to go...and it is inconceivable to me that you think you are intelligent enough to decide difficult constitutional questions.

You can barely write a comprehensible paragraph.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:32 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I wouldn't want to take your house.


You wouldn't have a chance.

Quote:
Besides, I don't need it to live comfortably for the rest of my life!


Good for you.

Quote:

Stealing your house would be against my morals.


No problem with that. What you'd have to worry about would be where you would move your stuff.

Quote:
Why don't you have that IQ 'contest' with JTT, who is willing.


Good move on your part, ci.

You and the genius Bill...both supposing you can properly decide the issues in this case.

A joke! Laughing
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I don't think Frank has the ability to comprehend the English language.


If your posts are any indication, ci, I understand it more than you.

Quote:
He doesn't understand the Constitution or all the legal opinions that what the NSA is doing is illegal/unConstitutional.


I understand, and am willing to acknowledge, that I do not have the legal background to make the kinds of decisions you think you can make on this, ci.

I also understand when a laugh is called for...and the notion of you having the smarts to decide this issue calls for a belly laugh.

Quote:
He believes his guesses are more relevant. LOL


No, I do not do believing. And that comment was about as lame a comment as I've heard in a while.

Wink Wink
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:35 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
A federal judge in New York has ruled that the National Security Agency's massive collection of American citizens' telephone records is both legal and useful.

U.S. District Judge William Pauley wrote in his opinion issued Friday that the program "represents the government's counter-punch" to eliminate al-Qaeda's terror network.

Pauley raised the specter of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and how the phone data-collection system could have helped investigators connect the dots before the attacks occurred.

"The government learned from its mistake and adapted to confront a new enemy: a terror network capable of orchestrating attacks across the world. It launched a number of counter-measures, including a bulk telephony metadata collection program — a wide net that could find and isolate gossamer contacts among suspected terrorists in an ocean of seemingly disconnected data," he said.

The ruling dismisses a suit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union against James Clapper, the director of the NSA, and the Justice Department.


source

In the end I imagine this will go to the Supreme Court. I am fine either way, but I wonder if you all will be? If the bulk collecting becomes the law of the land, will you all continue to say it is unconstitutional?
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I've stated why you are ignorant.


I am not ignorant...but I understand that you have to make that charge in order to feel good about yourself.

So do it...no skin off my nose. Wink


Quote:

Challenge what I say about you; I don't need to have you repeat what I say about you.


I've already challenged you. Wink

Go back to deciding constitutional law. It is much funnier than this other stuff. Laughing Laughing Laughing

0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:40 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Talking to Frank is a waste of time. His strategy is to try and draw the worse out of people, not to argue with them in good faith.


Not hard to draw the worst out of you, Olivier. Figuring out which is the worst...does present a challenge though.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:41 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
If the bulk collecting becomes the law of the land, will you all continue to say it is unconstitutional?

My opinion will not be affected by the opinion of the SC.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:42 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
If the bulk collecting becomes the law of the land, will you all continue to say it is unconstitutional?

My opinion will not be affected by the opinion of the SC.



That figures!
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  3  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:53 pm
@Olivier5,
The consequences could be enormous, which is why I am glad that Clapper indicated there is going to be more openness about the whole spying business. The more open, the less people have to steal information and the more people know, the more they will trust.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 18 Feb, 2014 05:58 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Quote:
A federal judge in New York has ruled that the National Security Agency's massive collection of American citizens' telephone records is both legal and useful.

U.S. District Judge William Pauley wrote in his opinion issued Friday that the program "represents the government's counter-punch" to eliminate al-Qaeda's terror network.

Pauley raised the specter of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and how the phone data-collection system could have helped investigators connect the dots before the attacks occurred.

"The government learned from its mistake and adapted to confront a new enemy: a terror network capable of orchestrating attacks across the world. It launched a number of counter-measures, including a bulk telephony metadata collection program — a wide net that could find and isolate gossamer contacts among suspected terrorists in an ocean of seemingly disconnected data," he said.

The ruling dismisses a suit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union against James Clapper, the director of the NSA, and the Justice Department.


source

In the end I imagine this will go to the Supreme Court. I am fine either way, but I wonder if you all will be? If the bulk collecting becomes the law of the land, will you all continue to say it is unconstitutional?


Thank you Revelette. Obviously different legal minds will see different areas of the nuances of the case. But for people like ci, Bill, and Olivier...there are no gray areas.

I am saying, "I do not know how it will be decided...and the subtleties of constitutional law are such that I cannot make a reasonable guess. "

They are saying, they know how it should be decided.

I am sure ci will claim that Judge Pauley simply is ignorant...and cannot understand the English language...and that he (ci) knows the law better than a federal judge.

Makes one wonder!!!! Drunk
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Snowdon is a dummy
  3. » Page 305
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.08 seconds on 03/10/2025 at 09:15:13