Snowdon is a dummy

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So you are suggesting our intelligence agencies only spy on people they know to be intending harm to us...and leave everyone else alone.

I think they are cheerfully targeting people and groups that have zero to do with national security as Hoover tape Rev King bedroom games and then used that to suggest he would be wise to commit suicide.

Or when Hoover was known to blackmail members of congress for that matter.

Sorry spying on everyone just because the technology currently allow it is a stupid waste of resources and a great danger to our republic.

..and simply state that you want the intelligence agencies to target only people they know mean us harm...and to leave the rest alone?

In United States criminal law, probable cause (also referred to as reasonable cause) is the standard by which an officer or agent of the law has the grounds to obtain a warrant for, or as an exception to the warrant requirements for, making an arrest or conducting a personal or property search, etc. when criminal charges are being considered. It is also used to refer to the standard to which a grand jury believes that a crime has been committed.

Reasonable suspicion is a legal standard of proof in United States law that is less than probable cause, the legal standard for arrests and warrants, but more than an "inchoate and unparticularized suspicion or 'hunch' ";[1] it must be based on "specific and articulable facts", "taken together with rational inferences from those facts".[2] If police additionally have reasonable suspicion that a person so detained is armed and dangerous, they may "frisk" the person for weapons, but not for contraband like drugs. Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the "reasonable person" or "reasonable officer" standard,[3] in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably believe a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; it depends upon the totality of circumstances, and can result from a combination of particular facts, even if each is individually innocuous.

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..and simply state that you want the intelligence agencies to target only people they know mean us harm...and to leave the rest alone?

LOL because you are being simple minded in trying to get me to state that the limit should be set that low for spying.

There is a world in fact a universe worth of difference between spying on everyone on and off the planet just in case they might be terrorists and only doing so if you are damn sure spying standard.

There are terms such as probable cause or even reasonable suspicions that had work just great for this nation over the generations.

In United States criminal law, probable cause (also referred to as reasonable cause) is the standard by which an officer or agent of the law has the grounds to obtain a warrant for, or as an exception to the warrant requirements for, making an arrest or conducting a personal or property search, etc. when criminal charges are being considered. It is also used to refer to the standard to which a grand jury believes that a crime has been committed.

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Reasonable suspicion is a legal standard of proof in United States law that is less than probable cause, the legal standard for arrests and warrants, but more than an "inchoate and unparticularized suspicion or 'hunch' ";[1] it must be based on "specific and articulable facts", "taken together with rational inferences from those facts".[2] If police additionally have reasonable suspicion that a person so detained is armed and dangerous, they may "frisk" the person for weapons, but not for contraband like drugs. Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the "reasonable person" or "reasonable officer" standard,[3] in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably believe a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; it depends upon the totality of circumstances, and can result from a combination of particular facts, even if each is individually innocuous.

For foreign spying I would even go to the "inchoate and unparticularized suspicion or 'hunch'  standard for spying.

But never never a no need to have any grounds at all for suspicions we are just going to monitor a billion or so people just because we can do so.

hhh...so now the NSA is spying on people not on the planet? Are they spying on the people on the space station...or aliens living in an ocean on one of the moons of Neptune?

Yeah...and the world has changed. But I guess people like you want to pretend that it hasn't.

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hhh...so now the NSA is spying on people not on the planet? Are they spying on the people on the space station...or aliens living in an ocean on one of the moons of Neptune?

By the no need to have any ground to spy on someone I am sure that any astronauts off planet be they Americans or Russian or Chinese or any other nationality should be a target for NSA spying.

Hell if you are going to listen into conversations between our own soldiers and their families why not the astronauts as you never can be too save now can you.

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Yeah...and the world has changed. But I guess people like you want to pretend that it hasn't.

If anything the world have gotten a hell of a lot safer then during the cold war period of time.

No need to tear up the constitution to made sure there are not terrorists under your bed Frank.

Your perspective on this issue, Bill, is simplistic and unrealistic. (But I guess you get points for being consistent!)

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Your perspective on this issue, Bill, is simplistic and unrealistic. (But I guess you get points for being consistent!)

Strange as that is how the hell I feel about your positions on this matter.

Second while the other branches of government was not being told and even lied to over the actions of the intelligence community it is hard for the courts to offer any protections over constitutional issues.

Now thanks to Snowdon the matter is out in the open far more then it was and the courts are beginning to take actions and declaring programs unconstitutional.

We can all be grateful that no one like you is in charge here.

A strawman bull shyt answer. these arnt cases of 1 man trying to kill as many thousands of people as possible.

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We can all be grateful that no one like you is in charge here.

I voted for Obama a constitution professor of all things only to find that he is far worst then the former republican presidents as far as honoring his oath to protect the constitution.

At least if I was in charge the constitution would not be in danger of becoming a dead letter and a whole sector of our economics would not be facing a world wide boycott due to not trusting US firms.

Terrorist groups had always exist and been deal with without the need to give up our rights.

It may be simplistic to you, but many of us agree with Bill's opinions. The government never had the right to intrude into our private lives; that's a guarantee by our Constitution. The government members who approved it are criminals, and should be charged and imprisoned for breaking the laws of this country.

The NSA has not done anything wrong, and baseless claims to the contrary will not change that reality.

I understand that, ci. But anyone who champions the notion that the intelligence community ought to confine itself only to people who mean to harm us...really IS being simplistic, naive, and disingenuous.

And nothing you have said here changes the fact that your perspective on this issue is simplistic and unrealistic.

Perhaps according US-laws

You,

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I understand that, ci. But anyone who champions the notion that the intelligence community ought to confine itself only to people who mean to harm us...really IS being simplistic, naive, and disingenuous.

Tell us "why" it's simplistic, naive, and disingenuous?" Please provide details of what you mean.

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And nothing you have said here changes the fact that your perspective on this issue is simplistic and unrealistic.

Spying on everyone in the US is dumb and a complete waste of resources and unconstitutional as already been found by a federal judge but other then that it is a wonderful way to keep us all safe and the terrorists from hiding under your bed Frank.

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Perhaps according US-laws

So far the US federal courts had not found this massive spying to be according to federal laws..