Snowdon is a dummy

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:165:0072:01:EN:HTML

How does the countries of Europe investigate and perform intelligence on these terrorist organizations?

0 Replies

@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

Are you suggesting that the NSA grabbed data from Germans in the US? Or are you saying that it involves data from Germans in Germany?

As it happens, this distinction isn't nearly as neat in practice as you suggest in your question. But that is not the point I'm making right now. Right now, I'm talking about US agencies spying on individuals, organizations, and government officials in Germany --- end elsewhere outside the US.

joefromchigago wrote:

If the latter, then that's something for the German courts to decide. I offer no opinions about German law.

Do you have an opinion on whether US officials have a duty to obey the law of the land? If so, does this opinion of yours change when the land is foreign rather than domestic?

2 Replies

@Thomas,

You wrote,

Quote:

opinion on whether US officials have a duty to obey the law of the land

. Isn't that the nub of this discussion? What's the data collected? Numerical data? How insidious are numerical data?

My insurance asks me how many miles I drive every year to determine my rates. What's the damage in knowing how many phone calls one makes or how many social networks I participate in?

How is the NSA using this information? When, why and how?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

They could come up with an algorithm that state with the amount of calls you're making, you couldn't possibly driving without making phone calls. You're a higher risk. Your payments go up.
Next.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Nice to see you back in your editorial writing form, Frank.

Quote:

Holy Toledo...I'm finally tuning into what some of you people are getting at.

I think that's an assumption much larger than your font size.

Quote:

You folk are saying that some countries are actually SPYING on other countries.

No, the US is using Gestapo like methods, Totalitarian like methods to try to counter something that they have caused thru their own Nazi like methods of illegally invading sovereign nations, killing innocents worldwide, committing acts of terrorism on a daily basis, spreading WMDs around the world for kids to play with, ... .

0 Replies

@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

Do you have an opinion on whether US officials have a duty to obey the law of the land? If so, does this opinion of yours change when the land is foreign rather than domestic?

I'm not quite grasping your point. US officials are obligated to obey the law, and if those officials are in Germany, then they are obligated to obey German law. If they are in the US, then they are obligated to obey US law.

2 Replies

@joefromchicago,

And if they're using antennae on US military bases in Germany to tap German communications networks?

1 Reply

There was some breaking news that Venezuela has offered asylum to Snowden.

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

I think that would be a foolish move on Venezuela's part unless they are assured trade will not be affected.

Quote:

Venezuela | Office of the United States Trade Representative
www.ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/venezuela
U.S.-Venezuela Trade Facts. U.S. goods and services trade with Venezuela totaled $62 billion in 2011. Exports totaled $18 billion; Imports totaled $44 billion.

From the Department of State.

Quote:

GDP (purchasing power parity):

$402.1 billion (2012 est.)
country comparison to the world: 34
$380.2 billion (2011 est.)
$364.9 billion (2010 est.)
note: data are in 2012 US dollars

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

I think that would be a foolish move on Venezuela's part unless they are assured trade will not be affected.

Why should trade be an issue, CI?

Countries don't threaten the US with trade retaliations just because the US harbors all manner of terrorist and war criminal.

Countries don't threaten the US with trade retaliations just because the US daily commits acts of terrorism against Cuba.

Countries don't threaten the US with trade retaliations just because the US, after being designated a terrorist group by the UN and told to pay reparations to Nicaragua, refused to respect the rule of law.

The list goes on and on.

It's only rogue nations that threaten other nations.

0 Replies

@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

And if they're using antennae on US military bases in Germany to tap German communications networks?

Is there any evidence of that, or is that just some sort of wild-assed hypothetical?

2 Replies

@joefromchicago,

Quote:

US officials are obligated to obey the law,

Nice theory, Joe, but it has never worked in practice.

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Quote:
US officials are obligated to obey the law,

Nice theory, Joe, but it has never worked in practice.

Exactly, the London congestion charge is a case in point. The non payment of which caused the then London mayor, Ken Livingstone, to label the American ambassador a 'chiselling little crook.'

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Venezuela under Hugo Chavez has a proud record of standing up to bullying and intimidation from the United States. It looks like Nicolas Maduro will be continuing that noble tradition.

The whole of South America is outraged by the criminal pressure the Americans applied to the Bolivian president, so Venezuela shouldn't have many problems finding customers locally. Their main export is oil, if the Americans don't want it there's plenty that do.

1 Reply

Snowden may get asylum, but he truly does not deserve it. If the asylum comes from Venezuela...I hope he enjoys his stay there.

I seriously doubt he will find it a freer, more open society than here in America.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

He won't be tortured, which is exactly what will happen if the Americans get their hands on him.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

He won't be tortured, which is exactly what will happen if the Americans get their hands on him.

Okay, Izzy...we get it. You hate America.

But the chances of a dissident being "tortured" in Venezuela are almost certainly greater than being "tortured" here.

The man broke the law here…and should be returned for trial. But if Venezuelan authorities want to grant him “asylum”…they can do so. If the American government wants to make a fuss about it…they can do so.

3 Replies

@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

Thomas wrote:

And if they're using antennae on US military bases in Germany to tap German communications networks?

Is there any evidence of that, or is that just some sort of wild-assed hypothetical?

I suppose, it's hypothetical - they just use these antennas to get a better radio and tv reception for US-nationals ... e.g. at "Little Pentagon" in Wiesbaden-Erbenheim.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

I don't hate America, I hate the way America behaves. Snowden will be tortured in America, the same way Bradley Manning was tortured under Obama's watch.

How would you feel if you had shown absolute loyalty to a country by sending your soldiers to fight in that country's wars, and enduring terrorist attacks as a result, only to find that that country had been treating you with utter contempt?

Wouldn't you be a bit disgruntled to say the least?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

This is from an article Walter posted on another thread.

Quote:

As every parent of a nine-year-old has recited at least once, just because “everyone” does something doesn’t mean that it’s smart. Britain reportedly has decided against bugging American facilities on the grounds that, if caught, the damage to London’s reputation in Congress and among the American public as a distinctive, thick-and-thin ally would outweigh any benefits in information collection. That may just be British spin trotted out this week because Government Communications Headquarters, Britain’s equivalent of the N.S.A., hasn’t been caught bugging an American embassy. Yet it is surely better to proffer that story than to say, We’re no worse than anybody else.

http://able2know.org/topic/217165-2#post-5375924

This is something America did to us, not the other way round. Americans think they are above the law, and that other countries don't matter regardless of how much loyalty that country has shown America.

If anyone is doing the hating it's America.

1 Reply

Snowdon is a dummy

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know