The Bible (a discussion)

@Romeo Fabulini,

I wrote:

Yes. Jesus is the means of salvation for mankind

You have a habit of not seeing answers you do not wish to see.

Some very simple questions for you but you may duck and dodge them if you are uncomfortable answering them.

Quote:

Whose words did Jesus speak?
whose words did the prophets of old speak?
whose words are penned by bible writers.
Did Jesus not agree with his fathers actions in the old testament?

1 Reply

@Smileyrius,

Whose words did Jesus speak? Who knows?
whose words did the prophets of old speak? Who knows?
whose words are penned by bible writers. All of them.
Did Jesus not agree with his fathers actions in the old testament? He didn't care. He had bigger fish to fry.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

I can't say anything about your ultimate reality, Frank. YOU are a blind guess, as far as I am concerned. I am not certain that you exist. Maybe you and everything you say spring from my fertile imagination...

Now you are thinking realistically. I have that same thought about you; everyone and everything else I think I see.

Anyone who doesn't...is simply not thinking.

1 Reply

Quote:

Smileyrius said:@RF-Yes. Jesus is the means of salvation for mankind
You have a habit of not seeing answers you do not wish to see.
Some very simple questions for you but you may duck and dodge them if you are uncomfortable answering them.
Quote:
Whose words did Jesus speak?
whose words did the prophets of old speak?
whose words are penned by bible writers.
Did Jesus not agree with his fathers actions in the old testament?

Good for you mate, you said "Jesus is the means of salvation for mankind"!
The word 'THE' means there's NO OTHER.. Wink

We true holy men don't do "duck and dodge" so I'm happy to answer your questions-
1-Jesus spoke GOD's words-
"For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak" (John 12:49)

and he also used Old T quotes to back himself up, for example-
"All things about me in the law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms, must be fulfilled" (Luke 24:44)

2- There were so-called Major prophets, and there were so-called Minor prophets in the Old T, furthermore there were prophets who were more like historical figures and wise men and so on.
Therefore the strength of their hotline to God differed among them, giving rise to understandable contradictions. For example some thought there's no afterlife, and some said there is.
Jesus arrived and set things straight once and for all, and people quickly cottoned on-
"Christ is the culmination of the law" (Romans 10:4)

3- The Bible writers were all sorts, prophets, teachers, disciples etc.

4- Jesus knew God's Big Plan and had no beef with it or he wouldn't have agreed to sacrifice himself on the cross.. Smile

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

And therefore anything anyone says is a blind guess. End of diversion.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

And therefore anything anyone says is a blind guess. End of diversion.

Not everything is a blind guess, Olivier.

But I am glad this is the end of the diversion...although, you are one of the most unreliable individuals here...and your proclamations normally mean little.

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

I have never suggested otherwise Romeo. However the reason I asked those questions was because I wanted to see how much we differ on our view of the bible. For what it is worth, I might be an old kook, but these are my postures.

1. Jesus spoke Gods words.
2. The prophets spoke Gods words
3. The bible writers wrote Gods words

Your answers help me to understand why you don't trust the whole bible, and I am sorry you feel that way. Perhaps you can understand why I do not disregard a single scripture.

with regard to 4, I wasn't really talking about Gods big plan, but rather Gods actions in the old testament, i.e the flood, the plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, actions that resulted in vast losses of life, would Jesus have agreed with those actions?

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@Frank Apisa,

So... what type of statements are not blind guesses then???

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Quote:

Smileyrius said:@RF-
1. Jesus spoke Gods words.
2. The prophets spoke Gods words
3. The bible writers wrote Gods words
Your answers help me to understand why you don't trust the whole bible, and I am sorry you feel that way. Perhaps you can understand why I do not disregard a single scripture....
..the flood, the plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, actions that resulted in vast losses of life, would Jesus have agreed with those actions?

You say you don't disregard a single scripture. So presumably you go out and kill witches and adulteresses etc as the ancient scriptures demand?
Jesus arrived and said "don't kill nobody", so you'd better make up your mind whether you follow the old scriptures or Jesus.. Wink

The flood, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah were necessary "culls" to improve the human and animal gene pools and DNA.
Incidentally the Sodom/Gomorrah gays were the very nastiest type of militant activist gays, mobs of them used to go round town hammering on peoples doors looking for men to abuse, so God decided to zap them out of the gene pool.
He had no real beef with "nice" gays, for example some allegedly ex-gays were welcomed as members of the early Christian churches (1 Cor 6:9-11), and nobody minded.. Smile

2 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

You say you don't disregard a single scripture. So presumably you go out and kill witches and adulteresses etc as the ancient scriptures demand?
Jesus arrived and said "don't kill nobody", so you'd better make up your mind whether you follow the old scriptures or Jesus..

I think I have overly estimated your intelligence. Christians readily accept the fact that Jesus fulfilled the law.

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

The flood, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah were necessary "culls" to improve the human and animal gene pools and DNA.

So we wouldn't have people like Hitler, eh? Or suicide bombers? Or the machete wielding Rwandans? What are you thinking? Or, perhaps, it was to show God's disapproval of child sacrifice, such as the sacrifices to Astarte. (Oh, sorry. that's Easter, isn't it?)

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Incidentally the Sodom/Gomorrah gays were the very nastiest type of militant activist gays, mobs of them used to go round town hammering on peoples doors looking for men to abuse, so God decided to zap them out of the gene pool. He had no real beef with "nice" gays, for example some allegedly ex-gays were welcomed as members of the early Christian churches (1 Cor 6:9-11), and nobody minded..

The operative word in your statement is 'ex'. Anyone, even you, who turns away from his sins may be forgiven.

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Quote:

Romeo said to Smileyrius: Jesus arrived and said "don't kill nobody", so you'd better make up your mind whether you follow the old scriptures or Jesus..
Neologist said to RF- I think I have overly estimated your intelligence. Christians readily accept the fact that Jesus fulfilled the law.

There you go again with your riddles mate, I've told you before to spit out what you've got to say in plain language so we can figger out what you're saying!
Perhaps you're just in a grouchy mood because it's Easter and Christians across the whole world are celebrating Jesus's resurrection, but you JW's are not.. Wink

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Jesus arrived and said "don't kill nobody", so you'd better make up your mind whether you follow the old scriptures or Jesus..

neologist wrote:
to RF- I think I have overly estimated your intelligence. Christians readily accept the fact that Jesus fulfilled the law.
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
There you go again with your riddles mate, I've told you before to spit out what you've got to say in plain language so we can figger out what you're saying!
Not a riddle, Einstein. Jesus fulfilled the law so we are no longer under its obligation.
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Perhaps you're just in a grouchy mood because it's Easter and Christians across the whole world are celebrating Jesus's resurrection, but you JW's are not.
We have already celebrated the important event, his sacrifice. That occurred on the 14th of April, this year, same day as the Passover.

On the other hand, you celebrate a holiday to Astarte, the goddess, who along with Molech, accepted child sacrifices in the land of Canaan.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

So... what type of statements are not blind guesses then???

The kind that have qualifiers...

...which mine almost always have.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Romeo Fabulini wrote:
You say you don't disregard a single scripture. So presumably you go out and kill witches and adulteresses etc as the ancient scriptures demand?
Jesus arrived and said "don't kill nobody", so you'd better make up your mind whether you follow the old scriptures or Jesus..
I think I have overly estimated your intelligence. Christians readily accept the fact that Jesus fulfilled the law.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets. I have come, not to abolish them, but to fulfill them. Of this much I assure you; UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, not the smallest letter of the law, not the smallest part of a letter shall be done away with until it all comes true." Matthew 5:17ff

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Like what qualifiers? IMHO?

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Quote:

Romeo said: The flood, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah were necessary "culls" to improve the human and animal gene pools and DNA.
Neologist said: So we wouldn't have people like Hitler, eh? Or suicide bombers? Or the machete wielding Rwandans? What are you thinking? Or, perhaps, it was to show God's disapproval of child sacrifice, such as the sacrifices to Astarte. (Oh, sorry. that's Easter, isn't it?)

Life is a test-
"Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life.." (James 1:12)

so although God gave the human race a helping hand from time to time, he didn't want to overdo it and make it too easy for us, and nasty people like Hitler are bound to pop up from time to time.. Smile

As for Easter, it's a celebration of Jesus's great victory over death and is nothing to do with "child sacrifice".
The only people I know who do that are the Jehovah's Witnesses who sacrifice their family members to God by refusing to allow doctors to give them transfusions.. Wink

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets. I have come, not to abolish them, but to fulfill them. Of this much I assure you; UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, not the smallest letter of the law, not the smallest part of a letter shall be done away with until it all comes true." Matthew 5:17ff

Yeah, but Frank. Why do you think the early Christians no longer followed the law? Was it perhaps that Jesus fulfilled the law? That did not make the law invalid. It simply took away the obligation.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Like what qualifiers? IMHO?

Take a look at some of my posts...and you will probably find several.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets. I have come, not to abolish them, but to fulfill them. Of this much I assure you; UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, not the smallest letter of the law, not the smallest part of a letter shall be done away with until it all comes true." Matthew 5:17ff
Yeah, but Frank. Why do you think the early Christians no longer followed the law?

I do not know for sure. Maybe they were hypocrites.

Quote:

Was it perhaps that Jesus fulfilled the law?

I doubt it...and we still have that part about "UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY." Earth has not "passed away" has it?

Quote:

That did not make the law invalid. It simply took away the obligation.

As far as the obligations of Christians to follow the law, I submit my opening comments in:

http://able2know.org/topic/128690-1

We can discuss the issue after you read them.

1 Reply

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