Does God Exist?

@FBM,

AGREED

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

Exactly. Therefore, Fortuna exists...

What the !@#$ does anyhting have to do with the roman god of luck????

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Well have fun with it...I'm off for a couple of days!! (I only post on Government Time!) C-ya!

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@giujohn,

See you in a few, John. If I see a god in the meantime, I'll let you know. Wink

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@giujohn,

giujohn wrote:

The ONLY "evidence" of the judeo-christian god is the torah/bible/quran.
This is purported to be the literal word of god written by man through the hand of god and man is instructed to niether add nor detract from the word of god ie., no interpretation allowed.

Quote:

19 I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, (Deuteronomy 30:19)

There is no way God could offer choice if the outcome were known.

giujohn wrote:

None of this comes from me. I merely use it when saying that this god can not exsit because omniscience is not compatable with our exsistance.
If anyone has a LOGICAL counter to this backed up by VERIFIALBE repeatable evidence, PLEASE state it HERE.

Don't you understand that your choice of words has trapped you in a straw man fallacy? To assume that God's perfect knowledge necessitates cognizance of all things present, past, and future is a denial of his power.

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@giujohn,

giujohn wrote:

Quote:
Live with, "I do not know."

LOL...that would be fine for an agnostic, but I am a nostic in my atheism!

John, you do NOT know that there are no gods...and you do NOT know that the existence of gods are not possible.

But that does not stop you from asserting that you know both.

Some theists do that also. They go from "I believe there is a GOD" to "I KNOW there is a GOD" in a heartbeat.

Acknowledging what you do not know would not result in the sky falling in on you. Give it a try.

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@giujohn,

giujohn wrote:

Which part is illogical Frank?

The part where you go from an alleged proof that "A" cannot exist...to a conclusion that therefore "L" cannot exist.

The part where you claim as proof that "A" does not exist is nothing more than an unsubstantiated major premise in an abortion of a syllogism.

And even if it accidentally were right...it would not support the conclusion.

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@giujohn,

giujohn wrote:

Quote:
The True God, whose name literally means "He who causes to Become" can be subject to no necessity, for whatever his purpose, he provides what is necessary.

The ONLY "evidence" of the judeo-christian god is the torah/bible/quran.
This is purported to be the literal word of god written by man through the hand of god and man is instructed to niether add nor detract from the word of god ie., no interpretation allowed.
This divinely inspired document clearly states that god knows the hairs on your head, the falling of a saprrow. your heart and mind and what you will do before you do it. He wrote your plan before he even created you.

Job 42:2
No thought can be withholden from thee.

Psalm 44:21
For he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

Psalm 139:7-8
Whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Proverbs 15:3
The eyes of the Lord are in every place.

Jeremiah 16:17
For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.

Jeremiah 23:24
Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth?

Acts 1:24
Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men.

1 John 3:20
God ... knoweth all things.

God is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End (Revelation 21:6).

God is the only One who can stand at the beginning and accurately declare the end.

None of this comes from me. I merely use it when saying that this god can not exsit because omniscience is not compatable with our exsistance.
If anyone has a LOGICAL counter to this backed up by VERIFIALBE repeatable evidence, PLEASE state it HERE.

Why are you continuing to claim that because there are flaws in the ancient Hebrew guesses about REALITY...that means that gods cannot exist?

You are way too intelligent for that kind of thing, John.

Back away from it. Acknowledge the fatal deficiencies of your argument.

1 Reply

@giujohn,

I agree that undeterminism is not logically compatible with the idea of an omniscient god. Einstein's incredulity re. Quantum physics was linked to this: he famously believed that God would not play dices.

However: 1) undeterminism still allows a God that plays dice, eg Fortuna who personalised hazard itself.
2) no scientific theory is ever proven true for sure. It's still theoretically possible that Heisenberg, de Broglie and others got it wrong...

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

2) no scientific theory is ever proven true for sure. It's still theoretically possible that Heisenberg, de Broglie and others got it wrong...

Add to that the obvious insufficiency of our language.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

2) no scientific theory is ever proven true for sure. It's still theoretically possible that Heisenberg, de Broglie and others got it wrong...

They got it wrong indeed.

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@neologist,

Quote:

Add to that the obvious insufficiency of our language.

I don't agree that human language is "obviously insufficient". We can always forge new concepts when we need them, so language can be made progressively more complete...

However, gods were conveniently defined (by men, precisely through language) as beyond human understanding, observation and logic. Therefore, "anything goes" in theology, a little bit like in art. You can say whatever you want with little fear of being proven wrong.

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@Quehoniaomath,

Quote:

They got it wrong indeed

Should we take your word for it? Smile

1 Reply

Quote:

Olivier said: ..gods were conveniently defined (by men, precisely through language) as beyond human understanding, observation and logic..

Ah but nobody "defined" or invented Jesus, HE came to US in solid flesh and blood form and said-
"For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak" (John 12:49)

In other words we're hearing God himself speaking through Jesus's mouth, how kool is that?.. Smile

Furthermore his miracles also showed us the awesome power of God working through him-
"..even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."- (John 10:38)

So God isn't remote and indefinable at all, because we can hear and see him through Jesus.. Smile

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Academic journal suggests that schizophrenia may be caused by demons
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/06/10/academic-journal-suggests-that-demonic-possession-may-cause-schizophrenia/

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@RexRed,

In my experience, the belief in demons (as opposed to or different from the devil) is widespread among Muslims. They are called djin, plural djenoon in Arabic -- the famous "genies" of the 1001 nights. The English word "genious" also comes from the same root.

Seems Christians don't believe in those anymore, for som err odd reason.

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@Olivier5,

Ooops, genius comes from Latin...

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

The English word "genious" also comes from the same root.

This is definitely not true. If we perform the most elementary verification and validation test of the statement, according to the online etymology dictionary for example (at www.etymonline.com) the etymology of genious is:

genius (n.) late 14c., "tutelary god (classical or pagan)," from Latin genius "guardian deity or spirit which watches over each person from birth; spirit, incarnation, wit, talent;" also "prophetic skill," originally "generative power," from root of gignere "beget, produce" (see kin), from PIE root *gen- "produce." Sense of "characteristic disposition" is from 1580s. Meaning "person of natural intelligence or talent" and that of "natural ability" are first recorded 1640s.
_____________________
N.B. In linguistics a homonym is a group of words that share the same spelling (syntax) and pronunciation but have different meanings. On the other side etymology is the account of or the facts relating to the formation of a word and the development of its meaning (semantics).

One cannot infer semantics on the grounds of homonyms (syntax), especially for words from different languages that have nothing to do with each other (that are not even from one and the same language group).

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@Herald,

Yes, my mistake. To my defense, I already corrected the error.

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

Should we take your word for it?

of course not, but they really are very very wrong,

1 Reply

Does God Exist?

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