17
   

We Have No Privacy, We Are Always Being Watched.

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jul, 2013 06:22 am
@spendius,
Quote:
No. I didn't mean that.


Then you don't know history.

Quote:
Why have you avoided the question about whether you are an evolutionist?


Because it isn't the least bit pertinent.

Quote:
What has Chomsky got to do with it? Get him on here.

Has he criticised Israel for what he criticises the US for? I assume he works from principles rather than body counts.


You ask what he has to do with it and then you describe what he has to do with it.

Yes and yes.

But body counts, which you seem to be blithely dismissing are important. They are part and parcel of what makes the UK governments a band of war criminals.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jul, 2013 06:43 am
@revelette,
Quote:
I agree that our government has done things which we can't be proud of, to say the least. I was against the war in Iraq and from what I know, Vietnam was an unnecessary war and not conducted in the right way also to say the least. However, this is my country and I think on the whole, we try to do what is right and when we don't, we have ways of protesting and changing things if we really want to.


This is indicative of just how little you know about the history of the US, Rev. This started with Native Americans and it hasn't stopped since.

Over 200 times we [the USA] have put our forces into other countries to force them to our will. We've been in the business of being a country for about 200 years. We've spent fifty years at war, - John Stockwell

The US, "on the whole" has never ever tried to do what's right. The US has always only done that which best positions its business interests. Consider all the dictators that the US has installed - it found this process was much cheaper and it made the propaganda mill that much easier to churn.

I know it seems hard to believe after a lifetime of hearing that the US is the savior of the oppressed but that is one huge lie, supported by endless streams of propaganda.

While protest has had some limited success, it has never materially changed the US war crimes and illegal invasions and ongoing terrorism against countries the world over.

Quote:
Noam Chomsky: The phrase 'war on terrorism' should always be used in quotes, cause there can't possibly be a war on terrorism, it's impossible. The reason is it's led by one of the worst terrorist states in the world, in fact it's led by the only state in the world which has been condemned by the highest international authorities for international terrorism, namely the World Court and Security Council, except that the US vetoed the resolution.


Do you know the country that the US attacked that led to this UN resolution against the US?




JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jul, 2013 07:04 am
@revelette,
Quote:
I don't think people should be giving away classified information which might put our country at risk and I think Snowden did just that and so is not a hero. I am not talking about revealing the fact of the programs but the information contained in the documents might contain information needed to be kept classified for security reasons. He has been out of the country with these documents and who knows what he reveled and to whom.


Classified information that reveals US terrorist actions against other countries, that reveals US war crimes is not information that should be protected by anyone.

Engaging in criminal activities is what puts the US at risk. How y'all can miss something this obvious astounds.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jul, 2013 07:11 am
@JTT,
I don't know history, as if anybody does, rev knows little about US history, Mac's a Luddite with childish fantasies.

It's an odd manner of discourse. Are you convinced you are the only one with permission to use it?

You don't know which way up is you silly sod.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jul, 2013 04:39 pm
Eric Clapper sent a note to Congress today admitting he lied in testimony to them about the NSA's surveillance program.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/07/02/national-intelligence-director-clapper-apologizes-for-clearly-erroneous-congressional-testimony-on-nsa-surveillance/?partner=yahootix
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jul, 2013 05:35 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
rev knows little about US history,


This quote from Rev,

However, this is my country and I think on the whole, we try to do what is right and when we don't, we have ways of protesting and changing things if we really want to.

illustrates clearly that she doesn't know the sordid history of the US.

Quote:
Mac's a Luddite with childish fantasies.


Is that what I said about McTag. I think your anger has you with spittle all over your chin.
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Jul, 2013 08:29 pm

http://24.media.tumblr.com/271a948ba1eae9a05602a80f54ff4562/tumblr_mpc0w1cBVt1r0wqrdo1_500.jpg
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 02:11 am
@Region Philbis,
I noticed that the "What? it ain't nothing" Obama shuck and jive is going nowhere with the Europeans. this could get interesting.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 02:50 am
@hawkeye10,
That could be due to the fact that they are not trying to claimed that outside the US that massive scanning of emails and others internet traffic contents is not going on.

We have the nerve to complained about the Chinese spying and they are like little children compare to what we are doing world wide.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 03:03 am
C'mon, Everyone. Gimme a break here.

Discovering that a nation is spying on another nation is like discovering a politician lies.

You can just about bet that EVERY country tries to find out everything it can about every other country. Every country spies.

We happen to be the biggest right now...the one with the most resources...so we do more of it...or the spying is more sophisticated.

Yeah...we spy.

Holy moley...and some clerics are hypocrites...some businessmen wear ties to work...some gamblers cheat.

The hardest part about this whole fiasco for the other nations out there is keeping a straight face while protesting indignation.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 04:11 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Discovering that a nation is spying on another nation is like discovering a politician lies.

You can just about bet that EVERY country tries to find out everything it can about every other country. Every country spies.




Spying between governments is one thing but the massive spying on not just governments but the people of those nations now that technology allow such spying is another matter.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 04:13 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
The hardest part about this whole fiasco for the other nations out there is keeping a straight face while protesting indignation.


Like we did when we was complaining about Chinese spying?

Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 04:14 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Discovering that a nation is spying on another nation is like discovering a politician lies.

You can just about bet that EVERY country tries to find out everything it can about every other country. Every country spies.




Spying between governments is one thing but the massive spying on not just governments but the people of those nations now that technology allow such spying is another matter.


Give it a break, Bill. The technology is new. It has never been available before. We ask the government to keep us safe. They have decided that one way to do that is to monitor communications.

If we do not like the way they are doing it...we elect another government to keep us safe.

The complaining no matter what is done...is absurd.

Privacy, especially the kind you seem to be expecting...is a thing of the past. Get over it.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 04:14 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
The hardest part about this whole fiasco for the other nations out there is keeping a straight face while protesting indignation.


Like we did when we was complaining about Chinese spying?




Exactly!
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 04:20 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
If we do not like the way they are doing it...we elect another government to keep us safe.


First we do have the constitution and the bill of rights, next if the government is able to keep the degree of spying secret how do we know if we should throw them out or not?

Next I and others are planning and are fighting back with the same kind of technology that allowed such massive spying in the first place.

Somehow I do not feel safer with the government having files on the personal lives of all citizens that could be used for blackmail as the Hoover must smaller files was used during his life time.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 12:15 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
If we do not like the way they are doing it...we elect another government to keep us safe.


First we do have the constitution and the bill of rights, next if the government is able to keep the degree of spying secret how do we know if we should throw them out or not?

Next I and others are planning and are fighting back with the same kind of technology that allowed such massive spying in the first place.

Somehow I do not feel safer with the government having files on the personal lives of all citizens that could be used for blackmail as the Hoover must smaller files was used during his life time.



The grassy knoll, Bill. You gotta work the grassy knoll into these kinds of posts.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 12:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
If we do not like the way they are doing it...we elect another government to keep us safe.


The brainless find it easy to just repeat vacuous propaganda.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 01:00 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
If we do not like the way they are doing it...we elect another government to keep us safe.


The brainless find it easy to just repeat vacuous propaganda.


Most of us have noticed that, JTT. You oughta ease off. Wink
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 01:09 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

We ask the government to keep us safe. They have decided that one way to do that is to monitor communications.

If we do not like the way they are doing it...we elect another government to keep us safe.

But what if they lie to our face when asked by Congress if they are doing it and make it a federal crime to discuss it with anyone? Are you able to elect another government if you are kept ignorant?
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 01:15 pm
Nice article in the NY Times today. The postal system is tracking the front and back of every letter sent through the postal system.

Quote:
“In the past, mail covers were used when you had a reason to suspect someone of a crime,” said Mark D. Rasch, the former director of the Justice Department’s computer crime unit, who worked on several fraud cases using mail covers. “Now it seems to be ‘Let’s record everyone’s mail so in the future we might go back and see who you were communicating with.’ Essentially you’ve added mail covers on millions of Americans.”

Bruce Schneier, a computer security expert and an author, said whether it was a postal worker taking down information or a computer taking images, the program was still an invasion of privacy.

“Basically they are doing the same thing as the other programs, collecting the information on the outside of your mail, the metadata, if you will, of names, addresses, return addresses and postmark locations, which gives the government a pretty good map of your contacts, even if they aren’t reading the contents,” he said.

The email covers are not being used for national security, they are used by the FBI, the DEA and other law enforcement groups to find evidence of criminal activity.
 

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