17
   

We Have No Privacy, We Are Always Being Watched.

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 09:59 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
If they include making it a criminal offence then the staff of the NSA would be subject to extradition to Europe to stand trial. That would solve all your problems.


The US protects criminals and terrorists, Spendi.

It*s amazing just how sanctimonious the US can always be when they are such villains themselves, when they harbor so many villains.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jun, 2013 06:23 am
@spendius,
Maybe the diner was on that show"Mystery Diners" where they set up cameras to watch their workers when they are not are not there to find out why they are missing money. I don't think it is against the law or even unusual to have cameras set up in places of business for any reason they might want to.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jun, 2013 11:32 am
Small security note the search engine Duckduckgo claims that unlike the other search engines, it does not keep track of the searches by IP addresses.
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  2  
Reply Sat 29 Jun, 2013 07:54 pm

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1012351_326059264193925_1843603293_n.png
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jun, 2013 01:58 pm
There is a terrific cartoon showing a good-looking couple having phone sex. He finally asks the woman what she is going to do to him. Unable to resist, Obama, who is listening in, says "Yeah, we want to know what you are going to do to him."
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jul, 2013 12:14 pm
Edward Snowden's Flight to Moscow Is Looking Like a Pretty Bad Bet

Quote:
Edward Snowden is marooned in the Moscow airport, perhaps without any clean pants, because he flew there without checking bags. On June 21, Snowden received an encrypted email from someone claiming to be a government representative, The Wall Street Journal's Te-Ping Chen and Ken Brown report, and the person urged him to leave Hong Kong, assuring him that he'd be able to clear immigration. On June 22, Snowden saw news reports that he'd been charged under the Espionage Act, and started looking for flights — sure he couldn't fly on an American airline, but not sure where he wanted to end up. On June 23, he headed to the airport and caught a flight to Moscow with no luggage to check. His decision to leave Hong Kong for Moscow is not looking like a good bet. He's now stuck in the airport transit zone (pictured above), where past asylum-seekers have been stuck for as much as nine months.

Update 11:27a.m.: Russian Preisdent Vladimir Putin said in a news conference on Monday that if Snowden wants to get asylum in Russia, he must stop leaking American secrets, the Associated Press reports. Reuters reports Snowden applied for political asylum in Russia on Sunday; Russia Today says the Russian Federal Migration service has denied that.

The U.S. government revoked Snowden's passport after he left Hong Kong. Ecuador issued him a special travel document, but it's been revoked -- reportedly because the Ecuadorean government got annoyed with Wikileaks founder Julian Assange's showboating.


(More at the source)
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jul, 2013 12:23 pm
On the Russia political asylum:

Edward Snowden Asks For Political Asylum In Russia: Report

Quote:
MOSCOW (AP) — The Interfax news agency says a Russian consular official has confirmed that National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden asked for political asylum in Russia.

Interfax cited Kim Shevchenko, the duty officer at the Russian Foreign Ministry's consular office in Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport, as saying that Snowden's representative, Sarah Harrison, handed over his request Sunday.

Snowden has been caught in legal limbo in the transit zone of Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport since his arrival from Hong Kong on June 23. The U.S. has annulled his passport, and Ecuador, where he has hoped to get asylum, has been coy about offering him shelter.

Russia's President Vladimir Putin says Snowden will have to stop leaking U.S. secrets if he wants to get asylum in Russia, but adds that Snowden has no plan to quit doing so.


JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jul, 2013 12:38 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
(More at the source)


Yes, like,

Rafael Correa: "Perhaps he broke the law of the United States, but in order to tell the truth to the United States, the American people and the entire world, and it’s a very urgent truth.. I think that this is a weighty argument in deciding whether or not to give him asylum."

That indeed is the weighty argument. Exposing the criminality of the US is vital, Revelette.

Consider the number of people who have died because of US criminality. This further US criminality, hidden from sight, will only lead to more innocents dying at the hand of the US.

Snowden is a hero, one of the few patriots you have. He has already sacrificed a great deal to protect y'all. You should be organizing protests in the streets.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jul, 2013 12:41 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
Russia's President Vladimir Putin says Snowden will have to stop leaking U.S. secrets if he wants to get asylum in Russia, but adds that Snowden has no plan to quit doing so.


Is Putin doing what the US did after WWII. The US sheltered Nazis and the people of Unit 731 so they could keep all the dirty secrets for themselves.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jul, 2013 01:06 pm
@JTT,
I really don't understand why you get personal with me, and why you kinda use the word "ya'll" a lot when addressing me.

I get what you are saying and knowing where you are coming from, I can see why you would think he is a hero. I think he broke the law and possibly put people in danger by revealing classified information that he shouldn't have. I agree to simply agree to disagree with you on this.

I just find the whole runaway flight interesting and posted the latest updates on it.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jul, 2013 02:55 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
I really don't understand why you get personal with me,


You are the one whose posting I'm answering, Rev. By posting what you do, I believe that you are helping US governments continue their widespread crimes. Let me explain.

Quote:
and why you kinda use the word "ya'll" a lot when addressing me.


I use y'all a lot to point to more than just you personally.

Quote:
I get what you are saying and knowing where you are coming from, I can see why you would think he is a hero. I think he broke the law


That's a given. But it's specious to even call those things 'laws'. The US governments constantly lie - they're lying now, they lie to y'all so that they can launch their illegal wars upon innocents the world over.

How can you even talk of "laws" and the US in the same breath when you have Afghanistan and Iraq [just to keep things relatively current]?


Quote:
and possibly put people in danger by revealing classified information that he shouldn't have. I agree to simply agree to disagree with you on this.


The propaganda spills out again. How can you so casually repeat these US government inspired lies?

That sanctimonious crap coming from the US when it's the US that has, not possibly, but actively, viciously, knowingly, time and again, put people not just in potential danger, but on KILL LISTS that were highly successful!

Quote:


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31925.htm

Assassination Nation

Fifty Years of US Targeted ‘Kill Lists’: From the Phoenix Program to Predator Drones

By Doug Noble

“A broad-gauged program of targeted assassination has now displaced counterinsurgency as the prevailing expression of the American way of war.”

–Andrew Bacevich [1]

...

And former president Jimmy Carter insisted, in a recent editorial in The New York Times, “We don’t know how many hundreds of innocent civilians have been killed in these [drone] attacks, each one approved by the highest authorities in Washington. This would have been unthinkable in previous times.” [8]

Really?

In fact, US assassination and targeted killing, with presidential approval, has been going on covertly for at least half a century. Ironically, all this drone killing now offers us a new opportunity: to pry open the Pandora’s box hiding long-held secrets of covert US assassination and targeted killing, and to expose them to the light of day. What we would find is that the only things new in the latest, more publicized revelations about kill lists and assassinations are the use of drones, the president’s hands-on approach in vetting targets, and the global scope of the drone killing.

Those of us in the Upstate Coalition to Ground the Drones, Code Pink and other groups protesting US drones for years have correctly focused on the use of drones as illegal, immoral and strategically counterproductive. We have abhorred the schizophrenic ease of remote killing, the uniquely frightening horror of a drone strike, and the unavoidable (even intentional) killing of countless civilian “terrorist suspects” in “signature strikes.” We have also warned of the proliferation of drones in countries around the globe and of their procurement by US police forces and border patrols, for surveillance and “non-lethal” targeting.

But drones are not the only, or even the most important, concern. It’s the targeted killing itself, past and present. In this article I start to unravel what the latest demands for transparency should lead us to investigate fully: the fifty year history of US assassination and targeted killing that has resulted, quite directly, in the present moment. Those who are mortified by the latest revelations of Obama’s kill list have much to learn from a more comprehensive, historical perspective on US killing around the globe. Who knows: Perhaps someone in Congress might even be prodded to do what Senators Fulbright and Church did in years past: hold hearings on this continuing execration taking place in our name. Until then, what follows is an introduction to this ongoing horror story.

Section 1 of this article briefly reviews the lethal history of the US Phoenix Program in Vietnam, the original source of subsequent US counter terrorist tactics and strategies. Section 2 revisits briefly the well-worn history of US kill lists and assassinations in Latin American countries, followed by the somewhat less-well-known history of US kill lists and assassinations in countries on other continents. Section 3 traces the direct legacy of Phoenix, even its explicit resurrection by the key architects of the US targeted killing programs in Iraq and Afghanistan, and in a growing number of “countries we are not at war with.”

One point of clarification and definition. It is well known that in recent history the US has orchestrated assassination attempts, both successful and unsuccessful, on major world leaders. Examples include: Lumumba under Eisenhower, Castro and Diem under Kennedy, Gaddhafi under Reagan, Saddam Hussein under Bush, and Allende under Nixon. [9] The term “assassination” is typically restricted to such killings of political leaders, and President Ford’s executive order banning assassination applies only to the assassination of foreign heads of state. [10] The focus of this article is different. Here we discuss the US-generated kill lists used over the last half century, under direct presidential authority, for the targeted killing of thousands of civilians suspected of being or harboring terrorists/ insurgents, from Vietnam to Guatemala, from Indonesia to Iraq, right up to the present day.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jul, 2013 03:02 pm
@revelette,
The following kinda makes "possibly put people in danger by revealing classified information that he shouldn't have" look pretty lame, doncha think, Rev.

This terrorism is hardly the one way street y'all have been led to believe.


==============

"...in four months,
five times as many
people died in
Indonesia as in
Vietnam in
twelve years."
-- Bertrand Russell, 1966

http://www.namebase.org/kadane.html

The following article appeared in the Spartanburg, South Carolina Herald-Journal on May 19, 1990, then in the San Francisco Examiner on May 20, 1990, the Washington Post on May 21, 1990, and the Boston Globe on May 23, 1990. The version below is from the Examiner.


Ex-agents say CIA compiled death lists for Indonesians

After 25 years, Americans speak of their
role in exterminating Communist Party

by Kathy Kadane, States News Service, 1990

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. government played a significant role in one of the worst massacres of the century by supplying the names of thousands of Communist Party leaders to the Indonesian army, which hunted down the leftists and killed them, former U.S. diplomats say.
For the first time, U.S. officials acknowledge that in 1965 they systematically compiled comprehensive lists of Communist operatives, from top echelons down to village cadres. As many as 5,000 names were furnished to the Indonesian army, and the Americans later checked off the names of those who had been killed or captured, according to the U.S. officials.

The killings were part of a massive bloodletting that took an estimated 250,000 lives.

The purge of the Partai Komunis Indonesia (PKI) was part of a U.S. drive to ensure that Communists did not come to power in the largest country in Southeast Asia, where the United States was already fighting an undeclared war in Vietnam. Indonesia is the fifth most-populous country in the world.

Silent for a quarter-century, former senior U.S. diplomats and CIA officers described in lengthy interviews how they aided Indonesian President Suharto, then army leader, in his attack on the PKI.

"It really was a big help to the army," said Robert J. Martens, a former member of the U.S. Embassy's political section who is now a consultant to the State Department. "They probably killed a lot of people, and I probably have a lot of blood on my hands, but that's not all bad. There's a time when you have to strike hard at a decisive moment."

White House and State Department spokesmen declined comment on the disclosures.

Although former deputy CIA station chief Joseph Lazarsky and former diplomat Edward Masters, who was Martens' boss, said CIA agents contributed in drawing up the death lists, CIA spokesman Mark Mansfield said, "There is no substance to the allegation that the CIA was involved in the preparation and/or distribution of a list that was used to track down and kill PKI members. It is simply not true."

Indonesian Embassy spokesman Makarim Wibisono said he had no personal knowledge of events described by former U.S. officials. "In terms of fighting the Communists, as far as I'm concerned, the Indonesian people fought by themselves to eradicate the Communists," he said.

Martens, an experienced analyst of communist affairs, headed an embassy group of State Department and CIA officers that spent two years compiling the lists. He later delivered them to an army intermediary.

People named on the lists were captured in overwhelming numbers, Martens said, adding, "It's a big part of the reason the PKI has never come back."

The PKI was the third-largest Communist Party in the world, with an estimated 3 million members. Through affiliated organizations such as labor and youth groups it claimed the loyalties of another 17 million.

In 1966 the Washington Post published an estimate that 500,000 were killed in the purge and the brief civil war it triggered. In a 1968 report, the CIA estimated there had been 250,000 deaths, and called the carnage "one of the worst mass murders of the 20th century."

U.S. Embassy approval

Approval for the release of the names came from the top U.S. Embassy officials, including former Ambassador Marshall Green, deputy chief of mission Jack Lydman and political section chief Edward Masters, the three acknowledged in interviews.
Declassified embassy cables and State Department reports from early October 1965, before the names were turned over, show that U.S. officials knew Suharto had begun roundups of PKI cadres, and that the embassy had unconfirmed reports that firing squads were being formed to kill PKI prisoners.

Former CIA Director William Colby, in an interview, compared the embassy's campaign to identify the PKI leadership to the CIA's Phoenix Program in Vietnam. In 1965, Colby was the director of the CIA's Far East division and was responsible for directing U.S. covert strategy in Asia.

"That's what I set up in the Phoenix Program in Vietnam -- that I've been kicked around for a lot," he said. "That's exactly what it was. It was an attempt to identify the structure" of the Communist Party.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jul, 2013 03:15 pm
@JTT,
What do we do JT. If somebody is on a kill list and we cancel it on compassionate grounds and they go on to knock a large building over in the US, or attack an embassy in Beghazi, there's all hell let loose.

Some people wanted to assassinate Hitler in the mid- thirties.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jul, 2013 03:33 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
What do we do JT. If somebody is on a kill list and we cancel it on compassionate grounds and they go on to knock a large building over in the US, or attack an embassy in Beghazi, there's all hell let loose.


It's so incredibly simple, Spendi. How someone who seeks to establish himself as a thinker could come up with this is amazing.

Or, you're being my straight man. Smile

Noam Chomsky: Because you can't comprehend that we should apply to ourselves the standards you apply to others. That is incomprehensible. There couldn't be a moral principle more elementary.

Noam Chomsky: The phrase 'war on terrorism' should always be used in quotes, cause there can't possibly be a war on terrorism, it's impossible. The reason is it's led by one of the worst terrorist states in the world, in fact it's led by the only state in the world which has been condemned by the highest international authorities for international terrorism, namely the World Court and Security Council, except that the US vetoed the resolution.

Noam Chomsky: If you take a poll among U.S. intellectuals, support for bombing Afghanistan is just overwhelming. How many of them think that you should bomb Washington because of the U.S. war against Cuba or Turkey, or anyone else. Pythagoras suggests this would be considered insane. But why? I mean, if one is right, why is the other wrong?






spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jul, 2013 05:08 pm
@JTT,
Because we say so and we have the biggest dicks.

Don't you believe in evolution theory JT?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jul, 2013 05:11 pm
@JTT,
I don't remember asking Mr Chomsky any questions.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jul, 2013 05:26 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
I don't remember asking Mr Chomsky any questions.


Do you take issue with what was in his quotes, Spendi?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jul, 2013 05:28 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Because we say so and we have the biggest dicks.


You mean, "Because we say so and we have been the biggest dicks".
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jul, 2013 05:40 am
@JTT,
No. I didn't mean that.

Why have you avoided the question about whether you are an evolutionist?

What has Chomsky got to do with it? Get him on here.

Has he criticised Israel for what he criticises the US for? I assume he works from principles rather than body counts.

revelette
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jul, 2013 06:19 am
@JTT,
I agree that our government has done things which we can't be proud of, to say the least. I was against the war in Iraq and from what I know, Vietnam was an unnecessary war and not conducted in the right way also to say the least. However, this is my country and I think on the whole, we try to do what is right and when we don't, we have ways of protesting and changing things if we really want to.

I don't think people should be giving away classified information which might put our country at risk and I think Snowden did just that and so is not a hero. I am not talking about revealing the fact of the programs but the information contained in the documents might contain information needed to be kept classified for security reasons. He has been out of the country with these documents and who knows what he reveled and to whom.
 

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