Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

God did not "sacrifice his only begotten son." He slept for a few hours, and came back to life like everybody else when they sleep. Maybe, he just didn't have a dream.

That is really funny to me~! It talks about sin and death. The fact of the matter is, once we have life, death is inevitable. There's been so many dates the christians determined on Jesus second coming, it's really a sorry joke for those who continue to believe in such hokey pokey.
There have been many natural disasters on this planet that killed almost everybody in its path. These disasters prove that no god exists, and only nature exists. The most religious people have been the victim of natural disasters. That should be a clue. Many religious people die every day from accidents. There is no god to protect them.

Past and future predictions of Jesus' second coming. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_and_claims_for_the_Second_Coming_of_Christ

...a more sophisticated version would wonder about Nature "dying" for an atom or a small change in the laws of physics...but we already know the answer to that one don't we...

...ppl like to matter so much... and guess what, they do...as much as an atom!

You bring up another good point. Christians believe homosexuals are sinners. Who determined that? What has sex have to do with religion? Doesn't the character of the individual matter more than sex? Why must religion go into the private bedrooms of people who love each other? That's the real "sin."

Quote:

DL,
You said , "But if I were foolish enough to read your myth literally, Satan would know that she did not have God's power to create and just wanted freedom from the tyranny of heaven."
You seem to be reading a lot into what I wrote. The bible says Satan roams the earth seeking those he can devour and you want me to believe he's just misunderstood?

No. I want you to recognize a mythical imaginary creature from real ones.

Quote:

You said, "Do you believe in freedom or do you think we should all be slaves to your God which is what he demands of us?"
I believe in freedom. I love that this whole country is based on procuring freedom for everyone, but what is it that they say, "freedom isn't free". As I understand it, the bible says that we can either be a slave to Jesus or a slave to sin. Do you think that there are people who are slaves to sin as the bible says in Roman's 6:20?

So you like the freedom here while working to enslave yourself after you leave here. Strange that you would want to downgrade your existence from free man to slave.

As to slave to sin. Now why would a God create us to be slaves to anything?

Is that what you would do, given God's power?

Quote:

The New Living Translation says of Romans 6:20, "When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the obligation to do right." According to this it would seem a slave to sin is someone who chooses to do what they want without any feeling of the stigma of wrong doing or without any moral obligation. Is that what you refer to as tyranny, not being able to always do what you want? It seems a person will either do right or do wrong- serve righteousness or sin. I don't think there is a third option, is there?

Moral, immoral and amoral are usually used to gage moral issues.

All moral issues are subjective so there is no one size fits all.

Quote:

The bible says that a man cannot serve two masters. Matthew 6:24 -"No one can serve two masters: Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other." Some people may feel that there are different degrees of sin, some not so bad as others. If a person does something bad how little of something bad can they do for it to be deemed good? It doesn't seem it ever can be. Sin is sin.

No. See above.

Quote:

It sure didn't seem fair to me that people should die for sin, especially people who live trying to be a good person. People aren't perfect. I think that it would be tyranny to expect imperfect people to be perfect. But it seems the bible is telling us we don't have to die for being sinners, we are set free in Christ.

Only if you accept his immoral tenet of substitutionary punishment and if you do, you show satanic morals.

Quote:

God loves us and He has freed us from the slavery of sin.

I see this as a lie. Stop saying what you cannot know to be true.

Quote:

He does this through his son Jesus. We are not perfect, but we have forgiveness of our sins through Christ Jesus who paid the price for our sins. John 3:16 We are free, but that freedom wasn't free. It cost Jesus his life. We don't have to be perfect. We can't be perfect. We have forgiveness when we screw up, BUT that does not give us license to sin; instead let us grow in the love of Jesus. He's a pretty good example for us of how God wants us to be.

Check your moral sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9gEBdg

Quote:

You said, "A & E were mentally blind, stupid and ignorant. They had their eyes closed and were not bright enough to know they were naked, is how scriptures put it. How in hell is that perfect to you?
Why did God put Satan, as the talking serpent in Eden if he did not want Eve to be tempted. He already knew that she could not resist his own power flowing through Satan. Right? Yet God himself says that they have become as Gods in the knowing of good and evil. That says that A & E gained a moral sense."
I find this statement of yours fascinating. You seem to be suggesting that maybe God wanted to teach us something about morality and about our being the sons of God. I know there are those here who believe the story of Adam and Eve are a myth of something that happened long ago. As for me, I tend to see Adam and Eve as representatives of us all.

Finally. A bit of sense.

So tell us, are we more perfect with a moral sense or without one?

I say we are better with a moral sense and that that is likely why Jews see Eden as our place of elevation. That was reversed by less intelligent Christians.

Quote:

"Choose ye this day whom you will serve." That sentiment is echoed from Adam and Eve on down through the bible. They may have gained a moral sense, but the question is would they follow it?

Do you follow yours?

Quote:

Rev. 12:9 says that Satan and his cohorts were cast down to earth. I don't recall seeing or hearing anything about reports of beings that supposedly look like those pictures that you mention are in the vatican. I've never seen or heard of any little red men with horns and pitchforks running around either. So where are they? Just my thoughts, but maybe, just maybe the devil's presence has something to do with that age old question, "Choose ye this day whom you will serve." Joshua 24:15

You bring up another good point. Christians believe homosexuals are sinners. Who determined that? What has sex have to do with religion? Doesn't the character of the individual matter more than sex? Why must religion go into the private bedrooms of people who love each other? That's the real "sin."

DL

I watched the utube video you posted of Bishop John Shelby Spong. Thanks. Religions, heck all people, have different beliefs so I can't say I agree with his assessment of all religions or how he regards that they may have determined such beliefs. I try to look to the bible and not necessarily religion, but I'm hardly an expert on the bible. I do love what Bishop Spong had to say about love and Christ and what he feels should be the embodiment of Christ and love in the lives of believers. It seems to follow very closely with what the bible has to say about self sacrifice, growing in Christ, loving your neighbor as yourself and loving God as you evolve into the fullness of what God wants you to be. I would have to say some of the most christian people I know live their lives in such a way.

Bishop Spong says that the belief that we are all sinners is a guilt trip that stands in the way of our growth in the love of Christ. It seems that's how he regards it and to some extent that is probably true. The bible says we are not to put stumbling blocks in the way of others coming to that fullness of God spoken about above, and I'd also have to include we should not be putting them in front of ourselves as well. Probably this is best summed up by the bible's admonishment to "judge not". Guilting others or ourselves would seem like it could be a huge stumbling block that we or others are somehow unworthy of God's love and forgiveness. "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way." Don't judge others and don't judge ourselves unworthy of loving or being loved by God. Romans 8:38-39. Yet maybe there is more to the acknowlegement that we are sinners than a guilt trip. Having moral laws helps to protect our society from lawlessness. Guilt does seem to serve a purpose in that it can bring about repentence causing a person to stop sinning and reverse behavior that may be harming others or themselves. Are you perfect? Many believe only God is perfect. Acknowleging that we are all sinners as the bible says makes us all equal in the eyes of God. It exposes religions and ,well, all groups that have a holier than thou attitude which demand its followers achieve a perfection that cannot be met. It seems this idea that we must meet a perfect standard can be a stumbling block too. So is it wrong to say we are all sinners? To say we are all sinners is a confession that we are not perfect. It should humble us. To say we are all sinners is to see others as less than perfect too. It allows us to forgive them rather than hold them to a perfection that we have not always been able to achieve ourself (Romans 2:1). Jesus said it best when he told those pharsees about to stone a harlot for her sins, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." It stopped them in their tracks when they realized they had sins for which they needed forgiveness too. Can there be love if there is no forgiveness? Forgiving and loving someone who hurts you can be one of the hardest things to do. Jesus did it. He forgave us all from the cross. When we accept that forgiveness for ourselves it wipes away the guilt of not being perfect and allows love to grow. Well, that's how I see it.

That is really funny to me~! It talks about sin and death. The fact of the matter is, once we have life, death is inevitable. There's been so many dates the christians determined on Jesus second coming, it's really a sorry joke for those who continue to believe in such hokey pokey.
There have been many natural disasters on this planet that killed almost everybody in its path. These disasters prove that no god exists, and only nature exists. The most religious people have been the victim of natural disasters. That should be a clue. Many religious people die every day from accidents. There is no god to protect them.