30
   

Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2021 11:56 am
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

NealNealNeal wrote:

OK Frank.
My "hail Mary" wish for you is that you continue to live a long and happy life (also you, Izzy).


Thank you, Neal.

It might interest you to know that, despite my present disposition toward religion, one of my most treasured memories involves me serving Mass...at St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican. It was in the Latin Rite, of course. I also served the Catholic Prelate of England in a high Mass back in the mid-1950's. I was listed in the program as an Acolyte, even though
I had never been invested with that that minor order.

Frank,
I am extremely ambivalent about this last quote. From a human interest point of view it is very interesting.
One thing that I am grateful for is that I had not been exposed to Christian liturgy until I had been a Christian a long time. I WAS exposed to Jewish liturgy which had no effect on me. The major impact of Judaism was our history lessons on people of the Old Testament. However, God completely disappeared after Malachi (the Chanukah story was more about Judas Macabee than about God). The Hebrew liturgy did not have much effect on me.
I wondered how God could completely disappear for 1900 years. My secular teachers taught about Evolution so I figured that maybe agnosticism was correct.
Then, the gospel was presented to me. I knew that I had found the answer to "the case of the missing God".
Liturgy is worthless unless a person understands what it symbolizes. What good is it if it is done in a language that people don't understand?
I know that Christianity is true. I do not have to guess like you do.



Not sure what you mean by "Christianity is true"...but for goddam certain, you do not KNOW that what Christianity teaches about the REALITY...is true.

Some of it may be true...my guess is that most of it is bullshit. But for certain, some of it MAY be true.

I do not KNOW...and neither do you.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2021 05:34 am
@Frank Apisa,
I think you got trapped inside your own quotes here.

You're not really saying anything new, anyway.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2021 06:27 am
@Frank Apisa,
I got that ****, as you say, from observing a year and a half or so of Coronavirus behavior. After smelling something fishy about it, I decided to stop reading about cases and numbers, and read instead about government action, and business failures, and general paranoia. When I did, the narrative fell apart.

I got to know some of the people before. My immediate family (mom and dad) , people from businesses I regularly patronized, and my siblings. I learned more or less how they thought.
And I learned that it's really not enough to believe in God but to distance oneself from this-world-ism. A fair number of so-called Christians readily folded, despite scripture telling them that God has saved them from disease in several verses, and despite the fact that Jesus died for our sins, and we have eternal life after death. What do we need all these precautions for, I asked myself. And I flatly refused. I saw firsthand the end result, as these people wanted me to be vaccined or masked inside a church. No no and again no, the people of God are not to be afraid of death. I walked out even before they could insist in that case that I should wear a mask, making them call "No" after me. These people in their heart believe what they are doing is right, but their fear has made them as rejecting as the secular world. My siblings mostly went along too, my sister a lot more than my brother. My sister before all this was a marginal Christian, only attending Christmas and Easter, and being overprotective of her children. Now she barely sees us. And her kids have gotten sucked into her phobia and has depressing lives. Ironically, my brother's kids, I thought were spoiled brats, but largely because they're willful, and because they live in Texas, they aren't having to go along with this much. My brother is kinda phobic, but much less so that big sis. Then there was our library, which I decided to enter despite everything, they are largely chill. But for awhile, they weren't. This having a large portion to do with a certain girl who I had a rather heated discussion with about a week or so after all this.
But all around, I've also seen how the atheistic "scientists" pushed this narrative, and how secular ppl not only swallowed it, but spewed it all over the rest of us. The worst precautions? People who didn't even allow others to socialize outdoors together? They were around people who had not even a sense of spirituality. Who forbade Thanksgiving meeting without a number of rules? Was it tolerant secular liberal California? Or was it deplorable bigoted states like Florida? It was California (of course). These are the worst restrictions on personal freedom, among those that as a state very few believe in God. But this was already evident. Communist China where tanks were rolling down main street so to speak (Tank Man is awesome)? North Korea, where the dictator is worshipped as a god? For that matter, ancient Babylon? In all cases, there might have been gods worshipped, but people's prime focus was on this world. In Israel, which bases its religion on God awarding us in this world instead of Heaven/Hell (they barely discuss an Afterlife), they have near 100% vaccination. Despite the fact that they should have believed in God, they went along. This should tell you loads about what is really going on. These are neo-Nazis developing this to target the Jews. The blacks in America also had first priority, even over the elderly, which were viewed as the highest risk group. This was another red flag to me.

In any case, yes, the people who supposedly had freedom as a result of not following God, were instead the first to fold, and then in turn policing others. When the Fauci gain-of-function thing happened, some of the more conservative or more Christian people wearing masks under duress stopped doing so, at least outside. And many stopped period. So because this "delta variant" came up that was sooooooo deadly, people got swept up in their fear again. Listen, this entire time, the only thing I ever gotten is a case of pneumonia and conjunctivitis. Meanwhile, the most Christian and the most conservative areas are nonetheless the most free. The most secular are not. Or you could always prove me wrong and head to North Korea, and tell me how free things are there. Interesting that they don't have any COVID there. Could it be because their society is already exactly where world government wants it?

You've never said that. I understand you alot better than you understand yourself though, to quote something you've told me lately. This time, I'm sure it's true.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2021 09:15 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

I think you got trapped inside your own quotes here.

You're not really saying anything new, anyway.


You lost me after the "I think..."

Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2021 09:17 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


I got that ****, as you say, from observing a year and a half or so of Coronavirus behavior. After smelling something fishy about it, I decided to stop reading about cases and numbers, and read instead about government action, and business failures, and general paranoia. When I did, the narrative fell apart.

I got to know some of the people before. My immediate family (mom and dad) , people from businesses I regularly patronized, and my siblings. I learned more or less how they thought.
And I learned that it's really not enough to believe in God but to distance oneself from this-world-ism. A fair number of so-called Christians readily folded, despite scripture telling them that God has saved them from disease in several verses, and despite the fact that Jesus died for our sins, and we have eternal life after death. What do we need all these precautions for, I asked myself. And I flatly refused. I saw firsthand the end result, as these people wanted me to be vaccined or masked inside a church. No no and again no, the people of God are not to be afraid of death. I walked out even before they could insist in that case that I should wear a mask, making them call "No" after me. These people in their heart believe what they are doing is right, but their fear has made them as rejecting as the secular world. My siblings mostly went along too, my sister a lot more than my brother. My sister before all this was a marginal Christian, only attending Christmas and Easter, and being overprotective of her children. Now she barely sees us. And her kids have gotten sucked into her phobia and has depressing lives. Ironically, my brother's kids, I thought were spoiled brats, but largely because they're willful, and because they live in Texas, they aren't having to go along with this much. My brother is kinda phobic, but much less so that big sis. Then there was our library, which I decided to enter despite everything, they are largely chill. But for awhile, they weren't. This having a large portion to do with a certain girl who I had a rather heated discussion with about a week or so after all this.
But all around, I've also seen how the atheistic "scientists" pushed this narrative, and how secular ppl not only swallowed it, but spewed it all over the rest of us. The worst precautions? People who didn't even allow others to socialize outdoors together? They were around people who had not even a sense of spirituality. Who forbade Thanksgiving meeting without a number of rules? Was it tolerant secular liberal California? Or was it deplorable bigoted states like Florida? It was California (of course). These are the worst restrictions on personal freedom, among those that as a state very few believe in God. But this was already evident. Communist China where tanks were rolling down main street so to speak (Tank Man is awesome)? North Korea, where the dictator is worshipped as a god? For that matter, ancient Babylon? In all cases, there might have been gods worshipped, but people's prime focus was on this world. In Israel, which bases its religion on God awarding us in this world instead of Heaven/Hell (they barely discuss an Afterlife), they have near 100% vaccination. Despite the fact that they should have believed in God, they went along. This should tell you loads about what is really going on. These are neo-Nazis developing this to target the Jews. The blacks in America also had first priority, even over the elderly, which were viewed as the highest risk group. This was another red flag to me.

In any case, yes, the people who supposedly had freedom as a result of not following God, were instead the first to fold, and then in turn policing others. When the Fauci gain-of-function thing happened, some of the more conservative or more Christian people wearing masks under duress stopped doing so, at least outside. And many stopped period. So because this "delta variant" came up that was sooooooo deadly, people got swept up in their fear again. Listen, this entire time, the only thing I ever gotten is a case of pneumonia and conjunctivitis. Meanwhile, the most Christian and the most conservative areas are nonetheless the most free. The most secular are not. Or you could always prove me wrong and head to North Korea, and tell me how free things are there. Interesting that they don't have any COVID there. Could it be because their society is already exactly where world government wants it?

You've never said that. I understand you alot better than you understand yourself though, to quote something you've told me lately. This time, I'm sure it's true.


You are an incoherent bunch of babble.

But I love you...so, keep babbling and I will keep responding.
0 Replies
 
NealNealNeal
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2021 02:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank
It must have been exciting to play a role in the Mass. I am glad that you cherish the experiences.
May God bless you.
0 Replies
 
NealNealNeal
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2021 02:24 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
Bulma
You have good insight. May God bless you too.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 23 Oct, 2021 05:24 pm
@Frank Apisa,
That's because you never learned observation skills as a kid. Now you're 85, and can't learn new tricks.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/816868397836926996/901611441063329832/New_Bitmap_Image.png

This is what I mean. You're trapped inside your own quotes, never saying anything original.

@Neal, thanks for the blessing.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Oct, 2021 05:48 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

That's because you never learned observation skills as a kid. Now you're 85, and can't learn new tricks.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/816868397836926996/901611441063329832/New_Bitmap_Image.png

This is what I mean. You're trapped inside your own quotes, never saying anything original.

@Neal, thanks for the blessing.



The suggestion that you "think" is comical. Most of the stuff you post is comical. You are a funny guy. I enjoy laughing at you.

I do not know if any gods exist. You do not know if any gods exist either. But while I have the ethical wherewithal to acknowledge that I do not know, you are unable to build the ethical wherewithal to do it. So you kid yourself.

I suspect mostly that is because you are terrified of the god you blindly guess exists.

I don't blame you. If I ever thought it existed, I'd be afraid myself.
0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 24 Oct, 2021 06:07 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Take no notice of Frank..he doesn’t get it and never has ….it’s not about knowing ;guessing or believing…one way or the other …it’s about accepting or rejecting a particular God and what that God says.

As far as the Christian God is concerned he has made his choice….he doesn’t sit on the fence when it comes to the Christian God….and in that respect it isn’t about atheism…theism or agnosticism…it’s just about acceptance or rejection.

He has rejected the Christian God at the moment, which is his choice.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 24 Oct, 2021 06:48 am
Frank said:
Quote:
I don't blame you. If I ever thought it [God] existed, I'd be afraid myself.

If true, Frank must be a complete phony. Was he pissing his robes while serving as an Acolyte during Mass? If not, he had to be a phony.

A Far worse thing I think.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2021 06:10 am
@Leadfoot,
"The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom."

There's not any reason why it should matter that I'm afraid of God. Because those who worship God are afraid of him. Those who worship the world worry about things like diseases that spare 99% of the afflicted.

And yes, I've known he is a phony. I don't give up on him anyway.
Leadfoot
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2021 12:34 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
Quote:
”The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom."


So true.

I think agnostics totally misunderstand that verse. They think it’s saying that it’s God's main goal that we should fear him.
Once you make any real contact with God you can’t help but sense the power behind it, you can’t help but feel a respectful fear of it. It reminded me of the first time I had to work on the engine of a WW2 era bomber while it was running. Even at idle you could sense the enormous power of it and the giant whirling prop has killed or amputated limbs of many a careless mechanic. That’s the kind of fear I think the scripture means.

NealNealNeal
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 25 Oct, 2021 03:55 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
”The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom."


So true.

I think agnostics totally misunderstand that verse. Once you first make any real contact with God you can’t help but sense the power behind it, you can’t help but feel a respectful fear of it. It reminded me of the first time I had to work on the engine of a WW2 era bomber while it was running. Even at idle you could sense the enormous power of it and the giant whirling prop has killed or amputated limbs of many a careless mechanic. That’s the kind of fear I think the scripture me


What some people miss is the SECURITY that God provide those who belong to Him. When Israel trusted and obeyed God the result was prosperity. It was only when God was not obeyed when Israel got into trouble.
Because Jesus died for our sins, those who accept His gift of salvation are in great shape. They are now children of God. They have been "blessed with every spiritual gift in the heavenlies". (Ephesians 1:3).
There IS the discomfort that comes from the sanctification process. However, we are totally secure (in Christ).
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2021 12:23 am
@NealNealNeal,
Psalm 14:1 of the Christian bible is very true as well.

James 2:19 makes the claim that even if one believes in one God.Good!Even the demons believe that and shudder.

Hence why believing or not believing are irrelevant unless further action is taken.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2021 07:27 am
@NealNealNeal,
There is security, we are promised though that there will be struggles and tough times, but that God won't harm one hair on our heads.
NealNealNeal
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2021 09:34 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

Psalm 14:1 of the Christian bible is very true as well.

James 2:19 makes the claim that even if one believes in one God.Good!Even the demons believe that and shudder.

Hence why believing or not believing are irrelevant unless further action is taken.


True
0 Replies
 
NealNealNeal
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2021 09:35 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

There is security, we are promised though that there will be struggles and tough times, but that God won't harm one hair on our heads.


Also very true!
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2021 07:29 am
@Jasper10,
Yeah, it's important to know. Not believing in God doesn't protect you from the supernatural. In fact, it makes you weak to things like possession! The Bible explains how the spirit of God left Saul and he was possessed by an evil spirit.

These spirits know fully well that there is a supernatural world, but they convince their hosts that it's all superstition. Most things are superstition, but emotional states exist where you can separate yourself (note how I phrased that, nothing else can separate you, but you yourself) from God. These are demons, but they are synonymous with mental illness.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2021 07:51 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


Yeah, it's important to know. Not believing in God doesn't protect you from the supernatural. In fact, it makes you weak to things like possession! The Bible explains how the spirit of God left Saul and he was possessed by an evil spirit.


Interesting blind guesses here, Bulma.

You are an ocean of blind guesses.

Quote:
These spirits know fully well that there is a supernatural world, but they convince their hosts that it's all superstition.


Yet another one.

Wow. We can always count on your to come up with one.

You really ought to start a thread titled, "My blind guess for today."


Quote:
Most things are superstition, but emotional states exist where you can separate yourself (note how I phrased that, nothing else can separate you, but you yourself) from God. These are demons, but they are synonymous with mental illness.



Ummm...this god of yours...has he given the gift of "mental illness" to all of its followers? Or has he given it just to...ahhh...well, you know...to some?

 

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