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Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

 
 
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2021 02:33 am
@izzythepush,
Lol….Darwinism is not a FACT izzythepush…..even Darwin himself would have probably apologised for suggesting it as a THEORY in the first place, if he were still alive… the theory has gaping holes all over it and everyone knows it….even Darwin himself HOPED that the gaping holes in his theory would eventually be explained.

The gaping holes are still there along with the desperate scientist trying to fill them…..you are flogging a dead horse on that one….
Jasper10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2021 04:34 am
@Jasper10,
Izzythepush….I am not an idiot at all…I am a realist….and what I say is reasonable.My + and - theories are not nonsense because they add up unlike the nonsense HALF science that is presently banded around as FACT…I’m not making this stuff up …if scientists bother to look into what I say then they would find better FACTS than what present day science claim are FACTS….I’m not inventing stuff you know….The Evolution Theory is a by product of HALF science theories….EVOLUTION is not fact …..at the very least it is HOPEFUL thinking…The FACT that they have found red blood cells in dinosaur bones should set the alarm bells off regarding evolution.These creatures were around in our recent history….. COMMON SENSE tells us that…
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2021 05:15 am
@Jasper10,
You are an idiot.

If your bizarre theories had any traction you could present a paper but you won't because you're too scared to be ridiculed, and you will be ridiculed because it's clearly bollocks.

That's a definition of idiocy in itself.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2021 05:16 am
@Jasper10,
You have no common sense.

Common sense tells me not to waste anymore time on an idiot like you.
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2021 05:32 am
@izzythepush,
LOL….whatever izzythepush….you are such a brainwashed joy to talk to…
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2021 10:43 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

You do discriminate, you've said asmuch about LGBT people, you looked down your nose at HIV sufferers.

Darwinism is a fact, it's established scientific opinion.

Nobody is trying to force it on anyone, and nobody cares what abunch of pig ignorant religious half wits thinks.

Yet that doesn't stop you trying to inflict your moronic viewpoint on the rest of us and you do.

You demanded Frank read Deuteronomy.


I asked Frank to "please read" the chapter. Do you consider this to be "demanding?
Marriage between a man and a woman is the only appropriate form of marriage. In that sense a do discriminate between what is morally right and wrong
However, I do not discriminate in the way you probably mean. In the 1980's I helped people with AIDS in hospitals. They were terrified Andi helped to encourage them.
This is not " hateful behavior". I risked my life for these people. However, God protected me from harm.
You show hatred to people of limited intelligence in your words. Why do you do that?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2021 11:20 am
@NealNealNeal,
Yes I do, you set a reading list, nobody else does that when having a discussion.

That is being demanding, regardless of the phraseology you couch it in.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2021 11:21 am
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:


izzythepush wrote:

You do discriminate, you've said asmuch about LGBT people, you looked down your nose at HIV sufferers.

Darwinism is a fact, it's established scientific opinion.

Nobody is trying to force it on anyone, and nobody cares what abunch of pig ignorant religious half wits thinks.

Yet that doesn't stop you trying to inflict your moronic viewpoint on the rest of us and you do.

You demanded Frank read Deuteronomy.


I asked Frank to "please read" the chapter. Do you consider this to be "demanding?
Marriage between a man and a woman is the only appropriate form of marriage. In that sense a do discriminate between what is morally right and wrong[/b]
However, I do not discriminate in the way you probably mean. In the 1980's I helped people with AIDS in hospitals. They were terrified Andi helped to encourage them.
This is not " hateful behavior". I risked my life for these people. However, God protected me from harm.
You show hatred to people of limited intelligence in your words. Why do you do that?


My reply to the bolded comment:

ONLY TO THOSE WHO BLINDLY GUESS THAT THERE IS A GOD...AND THEN BLINDLY GUESS THE GOD TELLS US WHAT IS MORAL OR APPROPRIATE.

It is NOT intrinsically true that, "Marriage between a man and a woman is the only appropriate form of marriage."

You want it to be so because of the many blind guesses you are making that get you there.

izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2021 11:25 am
@NealNealNeal,
You make a big song and dance about helping AIDS victims, but you do it while disapproving of them.

How dare you say who can and who can't get married.

You are denying those people the same rights you take for granted, that is hateful.

You risked your life?

You never said you'd exchanged bodily fluids.
Jasper10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 01:49 am
@Jasper10,
If one makes a blind guess (or hope) that good is bad (0 is 1) and bad is good (1 is 0) and believes this to be the only absolute then one is a fool because one could equally make a blind guess (or hope) that good is good (0 is 0) and bad is bad (1,1).One could equally choose not to make a blind guess or hope one way or the other but that changes nothing, good and bad are either the same or not the same.

If they are not the same then there is difference and absolute rules apply and this would mean that the guess (hope) that good and bad are the same was a false guess (hope).

We know that modern day science only utilises 0,1 and 1.0 logic output possibility combinations in its equations i.e. good is bad and bad is good and bases this UNSCIENTIFIC assumption on the fact that as neither can be defined this guess (hope) is correct.This is why we have ended up with a biased HALF logic science.

As all 4 off logic output possibilities are OBSERVED in the cosmos and all sciences are interconnected then it is equally ok to assume that
Good is Good and Bad is Bad.The individual can believe this with just as much confidence.

Science AND Philosophy are based upon all 4 off logic output possibility combinations ….Period.

Science AND philosophy are not interested in BIAS, they both cater for ALL belief systems (hopes or guesses) at the end of the day not just HALF hopes/guesses…..why wouldn’t they?
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 04:54 am
@izzythepush,
How dare nothing.

I just got off another forum which scolded me after deleting my post. Ummmm sorry but okay it's one thing to have my post quietly removed without explanation (this being a post I spent an hour writing, you know the super long kind), quite another to be told that some moderation was done, still other what they decided to do.

I would mostly prefer no-judgement moderation. Remove the offending post, leave no bans or marks against them, just "we decided to remove one of your posts" with the option to disable notifications. Simple. I don't care.

Nah, we've not only removed your post, but decided to tell you that the reason behind it was "Subverting the Forum's Mission." I'm sorry, what kind of bullshit is that. Some sort of hippie crap that we should all join hands and love each other (I told them to **** off with their mission, and that I hate Bahai. I'm still stressed but it gave me immense pleasure).

Nah, people disagree. This is the real world. Which brings me to the point. 1 Corinthians tells us (after telling us (a) gays aren't allowed in the kingdom along with drunks and cheats, and (b) that's what some of you were, but Jesus washed us in his blood and redeemed us. Now Christianity disagrees whether this means a once for all sin (sorry body you get one chance) or that you will continue to sin, but personally it's pretty clear that we are only human and will continue to sin) that everything is permissable, but not everything is good for you. This means, yes you can have a gay old time. You can also contract AIDS if you have unsafe sex.

How dare nothing. Don't get outraged when someone tells you they don't think people ought to be going around getting AIDS. You may not think they have the right to an opinion, but they do. Now I personally don't care so much, because I'm alot colder than him. Cold or hot, better that than lukewarm. To ghoulishly act in favor of something, without telling anyone that it may kill them.

It's possible, perhaps, that because he helps AIDS victims, he understands that gay marriage is a sort of fool's paradise. That he disapproves precisely because unless these unions are simply about togetherness, they are likely to contract AIDS. Now, I don't know enough about AIDS to know if gay sex is an automatic risk, or if two people who don't have AIDS can be in a committed monogamous gay relationship. I do know that much of the gay movement has a fair amount of infidelity, and honestly I think infidelity is a far bigger risk factor. But maybe I'm wrong. In any case, someone who works with ppl like this is giving you some Wisdom here. You are free to choose Lady Folly, of course. But you should know about the skeletons she has in her basement.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 05:39 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

I asked Frank to "please read" the chapter. Do you consider this to be "demanding?
Marriage between a man and a woman is the only appropriate form of marriage. In that sense I do discriminate between what is morally right and wrong.
However, I do not discriminate in the way you probably mean. In the 1980's I helped people with AIDS in hospitals. They were terrified. And I helped to encourage them.
This is not " hateful behavior". I risked my life for these people. However, God protected me from harm.
You show hatred to people of limited intelligence in your words. Why do you do that?


"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves." It's always nice when people pretend there is nothing wrong with their actions when they hurt themselves and others. 1 Corinthians uses homosexuality in the same breath as drunkenness . So let's use them together. The drunk resents people telling them what they do is wrong. "It's just a harmless drink..." Sure, until that night you spend in a hospital, puking your guts out. Sure, until you run over a child while drunk or smash up someone else's car.

Now, we don't have quite the same mentality about scolding a drunk person as a homosexual, because the once and awhile drink is not the life-changing event as one night of gay sex that may still give you AIDS. And because gays have declared that what they do is a sin. Even a drunk understands that isn't true.

It took me a bit to understand what Neal meant by risking his life, so let me spell it out to you.

There is a difference between the "Christians" who go around burning abortion clinics and attacking people with AIDS, and those that simply disapprove of their lifestyle that got them in this mess in the first place. It sounds like Neal not only helped them at the clinics, but defended them against bigoted people, putting himself at risk. What risks did you take? From a position of safety, you are scolding him while more than likely never having helped out at such clinics.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 06:15 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


Quote:

I asked Frank to "please read" the chapter. Do you consider this to be "demanding?
Marriage between a man and a woman is the only appropriate form of marriage. In that sense I do discriminate between what is morally right and wrong.
However, I do not discriminate in the way you probably mean. In the 1980's I helped people with AIDS in hospitals. They were terrified. And I helped to encourage them.
This is not " hateful behavior". I risked my life for these people. However, God protected me from harm.
You show hatred to people of limited intelligence in your words. Why do you do that?

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves." It's always nice when people pretend there is nothing wrong with their actions when they hurt themselves and others. 1 Corinthians uses homosexuality in the same breath as drunkenness . So let's use them together. The drunk resents people telling them what they do is wrong. "It's just a harmless drink..." Sure, until that night you spend in a hospital, puking your guts out. Sure, until you run over a child while drunk or smash up someone else's car.

Now, we don't have quite the same mentality about scolding a drunk person as a homosexual, because the once and awhile drink is not the life-changing event as one night of gay sex that may still give you AIDS. And because gays have declared that what they do is a sin. Even a drunk understands that isn't true.

It took me a bit to understand what Neal meant by risking his life, so let me spell it out to you.

There is a difference between the "Christians" who go around burning abortion clinics and attacking people with AIDS, and those that simply disapprove of their lifestyle that got them in this mess in the first place. It sounds like Neal not only helped them at the clinics, but defended them against bigoted people, putting himself at risk. What risks did you take? From a position of safety, you are scolding him while more than likely never having helped out at such clinics.


Okay, so we agree.

The only reason you, and Neal, think this stuff is "wrong" or "sinful"...is because you have made a blind guess that a god exists...and have made a blind guess that the god you blindly guess exists...is offended by those things.

Okay. Great that we can agree on that.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 07:09 am
@bulmabriefs144,
I was debating with NNN who claims to be a Christian.

I'm not remotely interested in your disgusting hate filled beliefs.

bulmabriefs144
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 07:21 am
@Frank Apisa,
Enough with the blind guesses already.

It is not clear whether God does not exist. That is a blind guess.

But there is what a police would call "reasonable cause" for the notion that God exists. We have reasonabld cause. We know that the odds are astronomical against the universe existing in the first place (literally, since that is the basis of astronomy), then further insane for a world hospitable enough for ANY life, and it should only be unevolved pond scum or something that WISHES it were as sophisticated as pond scum. Instead, we have live aplenty, million of species. We have life capable of hope, pain, remorse, guilt, and yes even the idea of believing in a Creator and worshiping him. You have no idea how sophisticated a level of evolution that is. Our cousins, the monkeys have only the vaguest idea of worship. From my experience with cats, they might attend worship but they don't really seem to get it. Only elephants seem to do funeral rites, besides us.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_behavior_in_animals
In short, there is an incredible level of evolution needed to participate in religion, and those who don't are like animals. They don't get a number of symbolic images found in the natural and human world, but instead think that knowing that the chance is basically zero (the same amount as the chance of a book suddenly appearing in a forest) is a blind guess. No, it is not. A thinking human can build, create, manufacture, and knows that things don't just appear. An unreasoning animal is confused about everyday things. A cat sees milk and doesn't necessarily connect it with a person who they saw earlier, who sat it down while they were gone. To a thinking human, that is the only thing it could be. This is not a blind guess.

And no, it isn't because of our theism that we believe this way. It is from knowing what this lifestyle does to people. How it hurts them. I myself am in the trans spectrum. I can tell you stories of what life is like as such. Neal can probably tell in depth about the sort of suffering the chronically ill with AIDS go through. It has nothing to do with our beliefs, and everything to do with our experiences. As a trans person, I found myself strapped for cash. I tried prostitution. I got some very sketchy calls, and one that seemed nice. That day, I went to church, and they were liberal so they talking about national AIDS awareness day (I considered this a warning from God, but I went ahead with the appointment). Went to hotel. The guy was a bit of a goof ( "at last, we can be together") but whatever. Went into the room. Something about his pad looked enough like the sort of room I'd have in another life. I excused myself to go to the bathroom. I cried. I didn't wanna go through with this. He walked me to the door then unceremoniously shoved me outside.

It isn't that we believe in God that we feel this way. We have experiences so we don't buy this rhetoric of simple love vs hate. We understand our past, we know how it relates to our present and furture. This is another diff between humans and animals, they understand their history. They don't get swept up by fads or the expectation of others.
bulmabriefs144
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 07:26 am
@izzythepush,
So perhaps you can explain what hate is, when you casually dismiss their beliefs as disgusting. Did you even read?

There is actually plenty of love for gay people within the beliefs of Christianity. It is precisely because they love them that they won't be enablers.

Meanwhile, when a gay person dies in front of you, and you see a Christian coming to them to give them last rites, you say "Those damned Christians! Why don't they take their hateful ideology somewhere else?" Am I right?

We are all sinners in the eyes of God. There is nothing about this that is disgusting of hateful.

Meanwhile, your own ideology sentences people to physical and spiritual death, and attacks even those who love others as hateful. I have seen this often enough that I recognize it. These people never help out at AIDS clinics. They scold to cover the fact that they do even less than me, and I'm a lazy asshole. They are like fair-weather friends, saying "Everyone should have the right to have sex with whoever they want." Sure, nice sentiment, until your immune system rejects even basic colds, and you can't eat anything. Where are these people now? Not there. They're busy telling other people the same routine. Everyone may have the right to that sorta sex, but that's not saying it's safe sex or that the guy who gave twenty ppl AIDS shouldn't be held accountable . So when someone, despite believing a person is a sinner (in fact, knowing it) understands that they themselves are also, and goes out to try their best to asave someone spiritually who physically is dying, and you condemn them for that, what does that make you? As you said it.

A disgusting hateful person.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 07:31 am
@bulmabriefs144,
I don't want to talk to you, you have nothing to offer but hate and bigotry.

Are you that desperate for company you'll try to talk to someone who has already pointed out that you disgust them?

There's no point trying to explain anything to you, you lack the understanding or the decency to change.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 07:40 am
@izzythepush,
Read the above edited comment.

I am not desperate for company. But you appear to be desperate to push others away.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 08:21 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


Enough with the blind guesses already.

It is not clear whether God does not exist. That is a blind guess.


Asserting there are no gods...is nothing but a blind guess.

Asserting that there is a god...is nothing but a blind guess...no matter that some people want to call their blind guess...a "belief."

Quote:
But there is what a police would call "reasonable cause" for the notion that God exists.


Bullshit.

Quote:
We have reasonabld cause. We know that the odds are astronomical against the universe existing in the first place (literally, since that is the basis of astronomy), then further insane for a world hospitable enough for ANY life, and it should only be unevolved pond scum or something that WISHES it were as sophisticated as pond scum. Instead, we have live aplenty, million of species. We have life capable of hope, pain, remorse, guilt, and yes even the idea of believing in a Creator and worshiping him. You have no idea how sophisticated a level of evolution that is. Our cousins, the monkeys have only the vaguest idea of worship. From my experience with cats, they might attend worship but they don't really seem to get it. Only elephants seem to do funeral rites, besides us.


More bullshit.

You are allowing your blind guesses about the REALITY to interfere with your logic...such as you have any.

Quote:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_behavior_in_animals
In short, there is an incredible level of evolution needed to participate in religion, and those who don't are like animals. They don't get a number of symbolic images found in the natural and human world, but instead think that knowing that the chance is basically zero (the same amount as the chance of a book suddenly appearing in a forest) is a blind guess. No, it is not. A thinking human can build, create, manufacture, and knows that things don't just appear. An unreasoning animal is confused about everyday things. A cat sees milk and doesn't necessarily connect it with a person who they saw earlier, who sat it down while they were gone. To a thinking human, that is the only thing it could be. This is not a blind guess.


It is purely, totally 100% a blind guess. But most religious people do not have the guts to acknowledge it as a blind guess.

You gotta live with that.

Quote:
And no, it isn't because of our theism that we believe this way.


You mean it is not because of your theism that you blindly guess there is a god????

C'mon!


Quote:
It is from knowing what this lifestyle does to people. How it hurts them. I myself am in the trans spectrum. I can tell you stories of what life is like as such. Neal can probably tell in depth about the sort of suffering the chronically ill with AIDS go through. It has nothing to do with our beliefs, and everything to do with our experiences. As a trans person, I found myself strapped for cash. I tried prostitution. I got some very sketchy calls, and one that seemed nice. That day, I went to church, and they were liberal so they talking about national AIDS awareness day (I considered this a warning from God, but I went ahead with the appointment). Went to hotel. The guy was a bit of a goof ( "at last, we can be together") but whatever. Went into the room. Something about his pad looked enough like the sort of room I'd have in another life. I excused myself to go to the bathroom. I cried. I didn't wanna go through with this. He walked me to the door then unceremoniously shoved me outside.


Sad story. I truly feel sorry for you.

But it has no bearing on the fact that if you assert there is a god...you are merely sharing you personal blind guess.

Quote:
It isn't that we believe in God that we feel this way. We have experiences so we don't buy this rhetoric of simple love vs hate. We understand our past, we know how it relates to our present and furture. This is another diff between humans and animals, they understand their history. They don't get swept up by fads or the expectation of others.


I hope you get past this blockade of rationalizations for your guesses, Bulma.

You will be much the better for it.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 09:33 am
@Frank Apisa,
This person doesn't understand evolution.

That's the level they're at.
 

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