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Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Oct, 2021 08:10 am
@Frank Apisa,
He made sure we all have something to say when we encounter a foul odour.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Oct, 2021 08:17 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

He did, he did.


He did?

Where did Jesus teach people to develop character in their lives?

Where?

Quote:
Here you go.

Quote:
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”
John 18:36

This is not the most important teaching, but it demonstrates that Jesus's core teaching was not a political one.


It does nothing of the sort. But let's leave that be, because you will be pig-headed about it...and I don't want to waste my time.

Quote:
So what did Jesus say that was most important? Well, he didn't. Actions speak louder than words. He died on the cross, not just for me, but for you there, Frank Apisa. If that is really your name. These internet handles. I keep expecting farmerman to have a cape and a pitchfork.


Jesus is purported to have said many things.

I am asking you to name the thing Jesus said that YOU consider the most important.

Why are you dodging the question?

Quote:
I suppose when you've died on the cross, you can be like "See? No big deal, Jesus." But from where I stand, this is a super big deal.


Okay...you think someone being executed is a super big deal.

Now...please name the thing Jesus said that you consider the most important.

Quote:
As for his most important teaching, that's a bit like holding a feast of all the foods you personally like and asking you to pick the one you want to eat everyday. We've got a list here of key teachings.
https://www.compellingtruth.org/Jesus-teaching.html
If I had to say, though, he seemed to be fond of quoting Hosea 6:6 (such as in Matthew 9:13), "I desire mercy, not sacrifice."



Of all the things Jesus purported to say...what do you think is the most important? I am attempting to find out what YOU consider to be the most important teaching of Jesus.

If you want to dodge the question...just dodge it. No need to play games pretending you are answering it without actually doing so.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 9 Oct, 2021 12:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Where did Jesus teach people to develop character in their lives?


Quote:
Not everyone who says to Me,"'Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (22) Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" (23) And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" (24) "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: (25) and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. (26) "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: (27) and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."
Matthew 7:21-28

Without good character, you are like someone who built their house on the sand. If you've seen a sandcastle, you already know the punchline of this story, building a real house is not much different.

If I say "I will follow God," but when hardship comes, and I betray all that this stands for, I am much like someone with no character. I have built my character on sand.

Quote:
If you want to dodge the question...just dodge it. No need to play games pretending you are answering it without actually doing so.


I have already told you, "I desire mercy not sacrifice." He quoted Hosea 6:6.

No, I'm not going to tell you the stock answer "love others as yourself." Mercy, not sacrifice. Already answered the question. And what does this mean?

The secular world, and much of the Jewish, and in fact most of the world agrees on the same message. Follow the rules, and set aside your desires. This is what this world tells you is important. They offer incentives in fact, if you agree and go along. High salaries, all sorts of material gifts, all to set aside your actual dreams and to hate yourself. Always with the compromises, sacrifices, and learning about doing your duty. They are quick to quote Romans 13, as if it's a blanket mandate to support totalitarian regimes.

When the Nazi or Commie groups come, they all say "we were only following orders." Or "the government told us that we needed to make sacrifices." And what were these sacrifices, hmmmm? Oh wait, they were the lives and freedom of other human beings.

Mercy, not sacrifice. If you really love your neighbor as yourself, you love yourself too damned much to sacrifice it to some stupid ideal. There is only one ideal worth sacrificing for and this is for the mercy of generations to come. Not because the state said so, not for the "greater good", but because you wanted to die on a cross so that many others will live in freedom. The only decent sacrifice is one made willingly, and one made for the mercy of others.

But here, here it is, if you want to be executed, climb on up. If you think that we all need to compromise a bit to get along in the world, then you also should climb up the cross. Tell others how much you are sacrificing while missing the point of the cross.

https://idisciple.blob.core.windows.net/idm/The-Empty-Cross-OriginalWithCut-774x1376-90-CardBanner.Jpeg

Or you could start by admitting that it's okay to love yourself, and it's okay to cut slack to other people.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2021 04:53 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

Quote:
Where did Jesus teach people to develop character in their lives?


Quote:
Not everyone who says to Me,"'Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (22) Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" (23) And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" (24) "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: (25) and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. (26) "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish
man who built his house on the sand: (27) and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."
Matthew 7:21-28

Without good character, you are like someone who built their house on the sand. If you've seen a sandcastle, you already know the punchline of this story, building a real house is not much different.

If I say "I will follow God," but when hardship comes, and I betray all that this stands for, I am much like someone with no character. I have built my character on sand.

Quote:
If you want to dodge the question...just dodge it. No need to play games pretending you are answering it without actually doing so.


I have already told you, "I desire mercy not sacrifice." He quoted Hosea 6:6.

No, I'm not going to tell you the stock answer "love others as yourself." Mercy, not sacrifice. Already answered the question. And what does this mean?

The secular world, and much of the Jewish, and in fact most of the world agrees on the same message. Follow the rules, and set aside your desires. This is what this world tells you is important. They offer incentives in fact, if you agree and go along. High salaries, all sorts of material gifts, all to set aside your actual dreams and to hate yourself. Always with the compromises, sacrifices, and learning about doing your duty. They are quick to quote Romans 13, as if it's a blanket mandate to support totalitarian regimes.

When the Nazi or Commie groups come, they all say "we were only following orders." Or "the government told us that we needed to make sacrifices." And what were these sacrifices, hmmmm? Oh wait, they were the lives and freedom of other human beings.

Mercy, not sacrifice. If you really love your neighbor as yourself, you love yourself too damned much to sacrifice it to some stupid ideal. There is only one ideal worth sacrificing for and this is for the mercy of generations to come. Not because the state said so, not for the "greater good", but because you wanted to die on a cross so that many others will live in freedom. The only decent sacrifice is one made willingly, and one made for the mercy of others.

But here, here it is, if you want to be executed, climb on up. If you think that we all need to compromise a bit to get along in the world, then you also should climb up the cross. Tell others how much you are sacrificing while missing the point of the cross.

https://idisciple.blob.core.windows.net/idm/The-Empty-Cross-OriginalWithCut-774x1376-90-CardBanner.Jpeg

Or you could start by admitting that it's okay to love yourself, and it's okay to cut slack to other people.


Okay...

...IT IS OKAY FOR ME TO LOVE MYSELF...AND I DO.

...IT ALSO IS OKAY TO CUT SLACK TO OTHER PEOPLE...AND I DO.

I will cut you some slack here. I will not ask you defend the bullshit you regularly post any more, because it makes you do what you did here...dodge my questions and pretend to answer them with even more bullshit.

I had a philosophy professor in college who once wrote on a paper of mine, "Frank, you ought to visit a dairy farm one day. You'll see lots of cows...and usually just one bull. I would like to see more cow in your responses."

I learned my lesson. You, Bulma, need a LOT more cow in your posts.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2021 06:31 am
@Frank Apisa,
No, you can't have a farm if you don't have some bull.

What, you gonna be one of those milk farmers?

At least 20% of everything I post needs to be lighthearted humor (you see it, right?), another 20% needs to be things that I personally think are factual, another 30% needs to be news articles from reputable news sources, and another thirty percent needs to conspiracy theories.

So like only 20% to 50% is bull, but it still needs to be there to mate with cows.

Or of we're being honest with ourselves, 100% is bull.

Dude, it's all subjective.
Unless you don't stop kidding yourself about the so-called facts and news sources, and the reputable news sources. CNN is not factual, nor is Fox, nor CBS, nor ABC, nor anything. Only Weekly World News, because they legit don't take themselves seriously.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2021 06:50 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

No, you can't have a farm if you don't have some bull.

What, you gonna be one of those milk farmers?

At least 20% of everything I post needs to be lighthearted humor (you see it, right?), another 20% needs to be things that I personally think are factual, another 30% needs to be news articles from reputable news sources, and another thirty percent needs to conspiracy theories.

So like only 20% to 50% is bull, but it still needs to be there to mate with cows.

Or of we're being honest with ourselves, 100% is bull.

Dude, it's all subjective.
Unless you don't stop kidding yourself about the so-called facts and news sources, and the reputable news sources. CNN is not factual, nor is Fox, nor CBS, nor ABC, nor anything. Only Weekly World News, because they legit don't take themselves seriously.


You need more cow...less bull, Bulma. I did not see it here in this latest post. Not nearly enough cow.

Allow me a note of agreement with you, though. Anyone taking all this too seriously is fucked up. Best to take it with a healthy dose of humor and enjoyment. Yeah, there are serious considerations being discussed, but the "humor and enjoyment" elements cannot be short-changed.

When it becomes unenjoyable (and occasionally it does), I just take some time off and do something else.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2021 10:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You need to play the PSP. I command you.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2021 02:20 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

You need to play the PSP. I command you.


You are sick.

Get help.
bulmabriefs144
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2021 07:04 am
@Frank Apisa,
You don't love older consoles?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2021 07:32 am
@Frank Apisa,
I hope you've got yourself a long spoon.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2021 11:22 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

You don't love older consoles?


I love people who make sense.

Why not try doing that for a change?
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2021 08:48 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I make perfect sense btw.

You just need to expand your mind.
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Oct, 2021 12:44 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Frank gave up on my attempts to explain it all to him ……He uses the term GUESS to ridicule everyone who doesn’t take his view. ….which in his mind is that he doesn’t need to GUESS one way or the other and therefore he doesn’t ..which is a GUESS stance in itself. !!!…how does he know that he doesn’t have to choose one way or the other definitively rather than just sitting on the fence?….He just doesn’t get it….

Don’t be taken in by Franks logic …he undoes himself….

I tried to explain to him that he needs to change the word GUESS to HOPE but he just can’t or won’t accept it.…..At the end of the day HOPE is all ANYONE has….i.e. a HOPE that the stance we take is the correct stance.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Oct, 2021 02:44 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

I make perfect sense btw.


You do not even come close to making sense, Bulma. Not even close.

Quote:
You just need to expand your mind.


You need to get one...so that eventually you can expand it.

bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 12 Oct, 2021 07:11 am
@Frank Apisa,
I have a mind. It's been opened by late night binge watching of anime and maga. I see the turth. You must also understand the turth, and then you'll become like me. (laughs maniacally)

Just because someone doesn't think like you, doesn't mean they don't think. They might be insane. Or you might be insane. Or the two of you might simply disagree, anfd actually be perfectly fine.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 12 Oct, 2021 07:40 am
So back to point.

Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Well, let's tell a story (Frank Apisa, izzythepush, and a few other people groan). This is gonna be an extremely pointless and boring story (now everyone groans) but I'm telling it anyway.

So like yesterday, I had to fill up the gas to my lawnmower. My dad gave me $10 to do the job. I emptied enough of it to fill the tank (this was about the third time that I'd managed to make do with the same gas), and grabbed the gas can. I also noticed that my own car was getting low so I resolved to fill it a little. when I got there, there was a big line about two cars at the non-ethanol pump, which is what I needed for the mower. I parked somewhere else, then after the first guy I pulled up. This guy was an old man, who struck up a conversatio after I noticed that he had like six or seven gas tanks to fill. He offered to pay, I think. But I got there to pay and kinda ignored that or just was oblivious. I filed my car with the non-ethanol (it might have been non-unleaded too, because the car I filled ran a bit strange for a few minutes, like it was figuring out how to burn or dragging something). Then the rest I gave to the gas can. Then I drove off. My dad wanted the change, but when I told him I'd spent part on my own gas, he didn't scold me.

Like I said, this is a pointless andd boring story. So much that I had to actually invet one. If I had to say, it would be about how the universe or God or whatever helps us out, but we also don't need to accept help. Also, that helping yourself is not seen as egotistical, but rather the matter was dropped when I told about filling the gas. ...Next I'll tell the even more boring story about when I mowed the lawn itself.
0 Replies
 
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Oct, 2021 10:03 am
@Frank Apisa,
Matthew 22:37 would be one of the most important verses that Jesus affirmed. It comes from the "Schema" which religious Jews quote every day. Jesus added Asimilar teaching to love people.
Verses like "I am the way, the truth, and the life. Nobody comes to the Father but through Me" is critical.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Oct, 2021 10:10 am
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

Matthew 22:37 would be one of the most important verses that Jesus affirmed. It comes from the "Schema" which religious Jews quote every day. Jesus added Asimilar teaching to love people.
Verses like "I am the way, the truth, and the life. Nobody comes to the Father but through Me" is critical.


Thank you, Neal...although Matthew 22:37, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind" always sounds to me like the Islamic, "Allahu Akbar" (God is most great).

But I do appreciate you actually responding to what I asked.
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Oct, 2021 01:08 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank,
Please read the entire chapter of Deuter chapter 6.
Religious Jews and Christians agree with the chapter.
The disagreement is about Jesus. Therefore, I would say that this is the most important teaching of Jesus, along with His death and resurrection.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Oct, 2021 01:23 pm
@NealNealNeal,
It's the old testament, Jesus isn't in it, so none of it can be seen as his teachings, you have to go to the new testament for that.

You may be saying certain prophecies allegedly pertaining to Jesus are the most important thing about Jesus then that's something else entirely, but that isn't what you were asked.

Now carefully read the second Surah and tell us what is so important about the time of the events.
 

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