Reply
Fri 24 May, 2013 07:27 am
Quote:[Pope] Francis explained himself, "The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart, do good and do not do evil. All of us. 'But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.' Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ, all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone!" We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: we will meet one another there."
http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=51077
I feel much better now about the fate of the eternal soul I don't believe I have.
@maxdancona,
Woot!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/3GwjfUFyY6M[/youtube]
@maxdancona,
I really like his message of inclusiveness.
I like to think that his idea that religion shouldn't divide us will be heard by both sides.
@maxdancona,
Quote:I feel much better now about the fate of the eternal soul I don't believe I have.
My friend you had overlook the fact that any place no matter if it call heaven or not where you would need to put up the religious right people forever and forever would be hell with or without flames.
@boomerang,
I suppose I like the inclusiveness too, but...
... it still seems a little weird to include people in something they don't believe in.
@maxdancona,
Quote:... it still seems a little weird to include people in something they don't believe in.
The whole concept of heaven or hell is weird/silly however atheists do not believe in hell ether however the religion believing parts of society are for the most part are sure we atheists are going there.
@maxdancona,
But everybody does that, don't they?
Atheist believe that nobody is going to heaven -- they include the people who think there is a heaven in that.
@maxdancona,
This was also in the article...
Quote:The Holy Father was not teaching anything new. In fact, this hope that all who do not yet know God are not only capable of doing good - but will progress toward that knowledge of God by doing good - is ancient. On Good Friday we all pray:
Let us pray also for those who do not believe in Christ,that, enlightened by the Holy Spirit,they, too, may enter on the way of salvation...
So for those who pray for the atheists' salvation (even while reminding us that we are already saved), I think we should hold in our hearts the loving hope that one day they will be freed from the bonds of their religion.
It seems only fair that if they want to pray for us to join their club, that we should help them to join ours.
@maxdancona,
I get your sardonic take, since it is the same as mine.
At the same time, this is a major change in pope talk, and makes me smile; not saying that sarcastically.
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
I get your sardonic take, since it is the same as mine.
At the same time, this is a major change in pope talk, and makes me smile; not saying that sarcastically.
I agree with this as well.
Even though I still get a whiff of religious hypocrisy amidst the warm and fuzzies, I do think this Pope is more interesting and sincere than any others I've ever seen. And that's worth something.
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:I suppose I like the inclusiveness too, but...
... it still seems a little weird to include people in something they don't believe in.
Your beliefs might be affected when u
molt,
and your human body eventually falls off.
Atheists who have survived human death
(i.e., re-incarnated in hospitals -- usually after defibrillation)
have reported some problems related to atheism.
David
@rosborne979,
I was chary of him at first, re some of his apparent choices of action in Argentina (yes, I know there are variances in reports), and still am somewhat, but overall, I like a lot of his modes and am giving him a chance.
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:Atheists who have survived human death
(i.e., re-incarnated in hospitals -- usually after defibrillation)
have reported some problems related to atheism
.
Nonsense an I remember personally when I was given ether gas in the 1950s seeing a pretty pin wheel tunnel as the gas effected my mind.
I question however if the affect had anything to do with going toward the afterlife and when human brains are subject to lack of O2 and other stresses tunnels and so on is not unlikely to occur.
It is like saying that people who took LSD and then saw the afterlife on his or her trip is any indication that there is an afterlife.
However, notice the last sentence of the quote, "But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: we will meet one another there."
In effect one can still go to Heaven if one lives one's life like a good Catholic (aka, doing good works). The Protestant concept of having the spirit in one's heart to attain Salvation is not mentioned. And, the criticism of Catholicism that one can't "bargain with God" (through one's good works), is effectively dismissed.
But, the passage doesn't address what is "good," since "sin" is bad, and "sin" correlates with immorality. But, by whose definition? Jews do not say sex is a sin, either in marriage or outside of marriage. That, in the eyes of Christianity, correlated to Jews having an image of immorality.
We're back to square one, in my opinion.
If i woke up and found myself in heaven, facing an eternity of the god squad singing the praises of their favorite, adolescent ego-maniac, i'd try to find some way to get thrown out.
Great fragment from Mr. Clemens. The colt asks his sire if horses go to heaven when they die. "Not if you're good, son."
@Setanta,
So then, is telling an Atheist he can go to heaven is the same as telling a Christian he can go to hell?
Or as Groucho Marx said, "Please acept my resignation. I do not care to belong to any club that would accept people like me as a member."
I appreciate the Pope softening his position. He seems a bit more in touch than the Popes I recall in my time.
Stumble It!
Tweet This
Bookmark on Delicious
Share on Facebook
Share on MySpace