How is this definition of "belief"?

@Fil Albuquerque,

May I ask you the same question I asked Frank?

What, according to how you see things, does "objective" mean? How would you define the word?

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@Fil Albuquerque,

If it was the case that all that existed was in the mind of a subject then all the reality of such mind would be a reality per se not observed by anything...the Subject could not claim be creating such reality but rather recognise such reality was happening in is mind for no reason...as reason or reasons (justification) would emerge after the subject existence and not before...before there was no existence thus no justification. Reality, although in the mind of a subject, would not be created by the subject but rather would be happening in the mind of a subject.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

it was my will but whether my will was free to do so is a complex matter to debate...you now come to know I am no free will advocate.

As I see it, if there's no free will, the human mind is basically useless.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

it was my will but whether my will was free to do so is a complex matter to debate...you now come to know I am no free will advocate.

As I see it, if there's no free will, the human mind is basically useless.

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Objective refers to the object or simply put that which is the case.
If I am being subjective then it is indeed the case objectively that I am being subjective and not faking it.

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@Olivier5,

It is like being with a ticket to a film on which you are inside the film...you assist to yourself unfolding in the world...your reasons your motives your processes are all borrowed from the world...that which justifies you...IT IS ! Time is of no consequence. Whatever it is true now will be forever true that it was as before happening it will be forever true that it would happen...indeed it can be simply said in resume IT IS ! Forever IT IS !
(The idea of "creation" is immature...)

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

Objective refers to the object or simply put that which is the case.

This is not what "objective" means in a philosophic context. This really explains a lot.

Objectivity, in philosophy, refers to that which exists freely and independently from the feelings, opinions and perceptions of any sentient subject.
Us being sentient subjects, any philosopher worth his words will acknowledge that truly knowing if something is really objective is problematic, to say the least.
I say again, it is commonly accepted among intelligent people that "objectivity" is an assumption, although a very serviceable and functional one.

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@Cyracuz,

Quote:

Objectivity, in philosophy, refers to that which exists freely and independently from the feelings, opinions and perceptions of any sentient subject.

How are the feelings, opinions and perceptions themselves of a subject, not an object which exists..the subject must have them...if you have an hallucination you are having a real hallucination Cyr and that is not open for debate ! You don't seam to simply understand that if you are feeling something then that is what IS THE CASE !

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@Fil Albuquerque,

In short, the lack of correspondence of a subjective state is not with reality at large, but rather from one place in reality, your mind, to another place in reality, outside your mind...Subjectivity does not need contradict objectivity.

Imaginary things are REAL imaginary things ! You cannot say your imagination does not exist or whatever it imagines...what you can say is that the REAL existence of what you imagine in your mind does not correspond to another real existence outside your mind !

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Sounds like Spinoza... Not my cup of tea. Time for me is not redundant. The future is not contained in the past. Otherwise, it would seem like a colossal waste of time.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

This is irrelevant. I am merely telling you what the word "objective" means. Your usage of it here is not consistent with the actual meaning of the word.

Quote:

You don't seam to simply understand that if you are feeling something then that is what IS THE CASE !

You don't seem to get how retarded that statement is. THAT IS WHAT SUBJECTIVITY MEANS! There is nothing objective about it.

You can't say that my emotional state is an objective fact, because it does not exist freely and independently of the sentient subject of whom these emotions are a part.

And you can't say that my emotional state is an objective fact, because you might think I'm angry, while another subject might think I'm stressed. There exists no objective, correct answer to what precisely anyone is feeling.

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@Cyracuz,

What I might think is IRRELEVANT for the ACTUAL state of what you are feeling ! If you are feeling something then it is the case that you ARE feeling something and retarded is that you still didn't get it after 30 pages !
(in good truth its UBBER retarded ! Laughing

)

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@Cyracuz,

I agree with you that "feelings" are always (100%) subjective. It's based on selective reasoning influenced by our individual experiences, perceptions and observations.

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Again, and back to the starting point...

There is a distinction to be done between not having objective knowledge on something and that something not being itself objective. If it exists it is objective.

Something which does exist, objectively exist weather I know it or not.

As an example:
I might not know whether I am speaking with Cyracuz or not, but that wont change the FACT that if I am speaking with Cyracuz, then I am speaking with Cyracuz.

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@cicerone imposter,

Feelings report subjective states but they are an objective condition of being !
If you think this sentence is wrong try repeat it to someone you really think is clever enough and you admire...write it down n check. Then come back to me. Wink

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

Feelings report subjective states but they are an objective condition of being !

Sophistry.
You are intelligent, Fil. I can't imagine what kind of fucked up, narcissistic perspective is needed to turn that into a disadvantage. Luckily, I don't have to imagine. You are here. Wink

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

You ought to try the same thing write it down and ask any professor you think is clever enough...but please try an impartial one...that is the least I can ask you...don't go to anyone either in my line of reasoning or in you line...for instance don't try Fresco otherwise you might indeed be victim of sophistry ! I am an honest bloke although of course you don't know it...I bet we would be friends if we met ! As it is in the web we will end up killing each other... Laughing

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
Objective refers to the object or simply put that which is the case.

This is not what "objective" means in a philosophic context. This really explains a lot.

Objectivity, in philosophy, refers to that which exists freely and independently from the feelings, opinions and perceptions of any sentient subject.

So...WHATEVER IS...actually IS...completely free of any independent feelings, opinions, and perceptions of any sentient subject.

It does not matter what it is...it does not matter how it got to be what it is...it doesn't matter what it might be at some future point...

...IT SIMPLY IS WHAT IS.

I am saying that REALITY...IS WHAT IS...WHATEVER IT IS.

I am also saying that I do not know what actually is. I freely acknowledge that I do not know what it is.

But that does not matter...because WHATEVER IS...IS.

WHATEVER IT IS!!!

That is what I have been saying right along.

Quote:

Us being sentient subjects, any philosopher worth his words will acknowledge that truly knowing if something is really objective is problematic, to say the least.

Getting a spaceship to Saturn and taking a picture of a particular part of one of its moons is very, very difficult also. But we have done it.

I do not have to KNOW what the REALITY IS...to KNOW that WHATEVER IS...(even if it is nothing) IS.

Quote:

I say again, it is commonly accepted among intelligent people that "objectivity" is an assumption, although a very serviceable and functional one.

It is commonly accepted among many very intelligent people that a GOD created this universe and incarnated ITSELF as a man in order to have people torture and kill it so that it could forgive humans for sin.

Whatever IS...IS. REALITY is...whatever is.

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

You are not even honest with yourself. Lol.
A professor?
This is basic philosophy 101.
"Objectivity" is a concept we have because of it's functionality, and it is only functional within the context in which it is defined. You are taking it out of that context, making it a meaningless parody.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

That is what I have been saying right along.

You said reality is objective.

Quote:

I am also saying that I do not know what actually is. I freely acknowledge that I do not know what it is.

Then how do you know that

Quote:

WHATEVER IS...actually IS...completely free of any independent feelings, opinions, and perceptions of any sentient subject.

?

How many times to I have to say it?
I make no argument against the assertion that "whatever is, IS".
I make no argument against the assertion that "whatever is, IS".
I make no argument against the assertion that "whatever is, IS".
I make no argument against the assertion that "whatever is, IS".

But how can you know that whatever it is, it is free and independent of the feelings, opinions and perceptions of any sentient subject?
What basis do you or any other sentient subject have to make that assertion?

And if, whatever it is, it contains all the sentient subjects, then to who is it objective?

2 Replies

How is this definition of "belief"?

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