How is this definition of "belief"?

@Cyracuz,

Quote:

This is true. It seems to me beliefs get their relevance from our cultural identity, so to speak. They are at the foundation of our societies, enabling us to function together. True or false becomes less important in this context.

There's a contractual, mutual dimension too, like in marriage, justice, or credit or even fiat currency. That's maybe what Setanta's rambling on traffic lights was about...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Your 2 sentence is very interesting...it reports to what is true...the problem is what happens and what you believe did happen often (perhaps always) are not the same...

Sorry, I can't understand what you're trying to say. Could you rephrase it, please?

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@Frank Apisa,

My approach to the question'what is the true nature of reality? ', is to examine the writings of someone who says they know because they say if you know then it is possible to put an end to suffering. I then continue to try to find fault with it. If I can't even after decades of study my confidence grows and also suffering has lessened as predicted.

This is how I precede. To take a cursory glance at reality and to say everything that can be known about it must be a guess without an in-depth study of the subject wouldn't work for me.

I have an ever growing confidence that the true nature of reality is beyond elaboration.

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The babble multiplies in this thread, which is well and truly f*cked. At least there is some small entertainment value.

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@FBM,

Quote:

I don't think a guess is even quite an assertion of anything other than, "Well, this looks a little better than that.

Let's see what happens."

I think this is your second sentence regarding the post I referred to, is there any other around ?

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Being aware that our beliefs might not be what is the case doesn't change the nature of our beliefs or how beliefs are formed, it only changes the degree of confidence we have in them, and that's a good thing...if people rather have the use of the terminology "guessing" as a mean to state the permanence of doubt regarding their own beliefs and assumptions, then great, it is healthy that they are able to doubt and question what they assume in every moment of their lives...does that say anything about assumptions being formed or not ? No, assumptions are a natural convenient and useful behaviour formed because thinking rational beings in their effort to prediction and control try to envision workable patterns in the world, then again, that might or might not be, what is the case to be true !

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@Fil Albuquerque,

That would be a reasonable response to Frank's insistence on the use of the word "guess," and his claim that he doesn't "do" belief--absent the context. Fil's statement about belief and it's utility is reasonable. That, however, is not why Frank rants about guessing and denigrates belief. A few years ago, Frank was in a thread in which several people took him to task for being hypocritical about agnosticism. They pointed out that he is "agnostic" about the existence of a god or of gods, but not about other supernatural beings. (He's even gone so far as to recently allege that if there were a god or gods, the god or the gods would be a part of the natural world--which is, of course, completely at odds with the concept of a creator deity.) Frank's response to being hammered so badly in that thread (most of those who had pointed out the flaw in his arguments don't even bother to respond to him any longer), was to come up with this "guess" bullsh*t. It's nonsense. People who believe in a deity didn't just wake up one morning and say "I guess there's a god! I guess i'm a Lutheran!" They imbibed their beliefs from their parents and their community, who imbibed that belief from their parents, who imbibed that belief from their parents, etc. There was no "guessing" involved. They hold the belief they imbibed in childhood (those who don't become selective agnostics like Frank, or atheists) and participate in a community of like-minded believers. Guess is not a plausible description of their assumptions and how they arrived at them.

Frank shows up in this thread and throws in his feeble polemical tool about guesses. What is saddest is the way that people have hurried to play his game. It's like a pack of baboons howling because one other baboon started howling.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Quote:
I don't think a guess is even quite an assertion of anything other than, "Well, this looks a little better than that.

Let's see what happens."
I think this is your second sentence regarding the post I referred to, is there any other around ?

Your response, "Your 2 sentence is very interesting...it reports to what is true...the problem is what happens and what you believe did happen often (perhaps always) are not the same..." doesn't make much sense in English. What do you mean, "...it reports to what is true..."? How can a sentence report to anything? I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just trying to figure out what you mean.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Being aware that our beliefs might not be what is the case doesn't change the nature of our beliefs or how beliefs are formed, it only changes the degree of confidence we have in them, and that's a good thing...if people rather have the use of the terminology "guessing" as a mean to state the permanence of doubt regarding their own beliefs and assumptions, then great, it is healthy that they are able to doubt and question what they assume in every moment of their lives...does that say anything about assumptions being formed or not ? No, assumptions are a natural convenient and useful behaviour formed because thinking rational beings in their effort to prediction and control try to envision workable patterns in the world, then again, that might or might not be, what is the case to be true !

I see in his response to this post, Fil, Setanta has pretty much called me and everyone else here a baboon. Poor Setanta. He can't even get along with himself. And he has delusions about people hammering other people.

Sad guy. But I love the fact that I get under his skin the way I do. He actually gets cute when he gets all puffed up and haughty...and "looking cute" is not an easy thing for him to pull off.

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@FBM,

That's the lamest excuse to bypass a remark...I won't even address it...then you complain of animosity when you deliberately use any trick in the bag to hide your comprehensive insufficiency's...(try "refer" instead of "report")

I'm not indulging any more bullshit with you...

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So i see you have no argument to back up your guess bullsh*t, Frank, so you default to your sneers and smears. No surprise there.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

That's the lamest excuse to bypass a remark...I won't even address it...then you complain of animosity when you deliberately use any trick in the bag to hide your comprehensive insufficiency's...(try "refer" instead of "report")

I'm not indulging any more bullshit with you...

No problem. If you read animosity into even the most polite and respectful question and a sincere attempt to understand your message. then I have little reason to expect the quality of our exchange to improve. Have a nice day.

1 Reply

@FBM,

Sentences have subjects (targets) they address or better, intend to address "real" objects ! Now go back and analyse your second sentence and you will see the flaw in the reasoning unless your reasoning skills are by default flawed.

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Sentences have subjects (targets) they address or better, intend to address "real" objects ! Now go back and analyse your second sentence and you will see the flaw in the reasoning unless your reasoning skills are by default flawed.

Alright, goddammit, you ******* booger-eating, slack-jawed, inbred moron. First of all, when the **** did I claim that objects weren't ******* real? Pull you head out of your caecum and pay the **** attention to what people actually write instead of spinning off on bizarre tangents that have nothing to do with what the **** was said. Are you three years old or something? If you're going to argue in a foreign ******* language, learn the motherfucking language first, dipshit. If you mean "refer," ******* write "refer." "Report" in that sentence is gibberish, you dim-witted retard. In the same ******* post you blame me and admit your own idiotic mistake. Learn some basic reasoning skills while you're learning the ******* language, shithead.

And how the **** does "Let's see what happens" refer to an object? Are you really that stupid, or are you just pretending? If you were any stupider, you'd have to be watered once a week.

So **** the **** off. I'm tired of trying to be respectful to you while you take every opportunity to be snotty and condescending. **** off and get a basic ******* education beyond grade-school, ****-face..

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Wow! That was fun! Laughing

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Fil seems to have anger management problems. I wrote a post which had absolutely nothing to do with him, and he told me to go f*ck myself. Maybe when he grows up . . .

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@Setanta,

I'm not going to hold my breath. Wink

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@FBM,

You are indeed as I thought a total idiot incapable of seeing the most basic flaws on a sentence with 4 words...

When you state "lets see what happens", the typical remark a philosophical debate can throw at you is that you won't see "what happens"(the world) but you will see what you think did happen (your perception of the world)

The remark is straight forward and easy to get to anyone minimally comfortable with these questions...

Your sentence indeed intended to report what is the case going on in the world without questioning the naive assumption that what you think is happening might or might not be the case of what is really happening you ******* monkey asshole...

...in fact both your sentences together to any trained eye immediately pull a smile in anyone reading them once in a first moment they intend to debunk resorting to truth as reference and immediately after they resort to it...

...all your contribution to this thread so far has been nothing but a bunch of common sense trivial comments without any significant substance whatsoever !

Make no mistake, in spite of my little quarrel with Setanta, there is a huge huge difference between your reasoning skills and his reasoning skills at least he is able to make some points when he is not ragging...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

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Golll-eeeeee . . . i'm so flattered . . .

1 Reply

How is this definition of "belief"?

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