How is this definition of "belief"?

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

I don't think anybody claimed such - that beliefs are immune to scrutiny.

Well, we are taught to respect other people's beliefs. I think that reflects what you say about learning and how we all perceive from our own unique perspective, which relates to our unique "belief system". 'Conceptual frame' rather than 'belief system' is growing on me though. It lets me examine them more honestly.

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@Cyracuz,

It doesn't matter that "we have outgrown the frames of capitalism." It's still with us, and will remain with us for a very long time. There's nothing to take its place.

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@Cyracuz,

'Conceptual frame' is a good term for the subject of belief. That explains why each of us perceives everything from our own perspective.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

You wrote,
Quote:
though I find it strange how for some reason certain beliefs should have any kind of immunity to scrutiny.

I don't think anybody claimed such - that beliefs are immune to scrutiny.

I think belief is a learned phenomenon from personal experience, environment, culture, and personal perception.

Each person's perception about different aspect of life are derived based on their own "belief" system.

I think most of us arrive at some level of belief, because we can rely on it, and others interpret it somewhat similarly. It minimizes communication difficulties. "I'll see you at 10AM tomorrow at the city hall."

Not many people can confuse the meaning of that message. Not many people are going to interpret that as a guess.

It has a high level of confidence.

Let's try this one more time: The "guess" part has to do with GUESSES about REALITY that are disguised by the use of the word BELIEF.

Christ, if you do not get it by now, you probably never will, c.i.

I have a very high level of confidence in that.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Yes, it can be entertaining. :-)

In all seriousness, Olivier...it truly can. And I think (have a high level of confidence) that you really do understand that it can.

We can bicker...and the bickering can be entertaining. At the end of the night...we are going to have our favorite take on things and stick with it.

But for the most part...we could meet and have a beer...glass of wine...coffee and crumb cake...

...and enjoy the hell out of one another's company.

Just had an encounter in the city the other day with a few A2K people. Take a look. Joe Nation (Jonathan) was taking the picture.

http://able2know.org/topic/206458-11#post-5335565

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@cicerone imposter,

Not "we have outgrown..." The money machine has grown out of any description as merely an economic system. It is so much more than that. Most people only have a vague, intuitive grasp of what really happens in global economics.
Economic regulations and laws are so complicated that it can make the most cryptic scripture a light read.
The whole thing has taken on religious proportions.
Does it matter in the end, if the principles we run our lives by were derived from the practice of opportunistic goldsmiths who got greedy, or lies perpetrated by an elevated clergy who imposed their interests, also out of greed?
In terms of the survival of our species, which of the two conceptual frames, the "moral religion" or the "economic religion" is better suited to make us survive? I don't think we can answer that question, only form opinions about it and let time tell.

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@Cyracuz,

Quote:

In terms of the survival of our species, which of the two conceptual frames, the "moral religion" or the "economic religion" is better suited to make us survive? I don't think we can answer that question, only form opinions about it and let time tell.

I hope it's not the only two choices we have.

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@Cyracuz,

I'm not sure that they are competing systems. FMPOV, religion and economics can be co-mingled, and many are. That's the reason why many religions around the world have built structures that completely ignores the people who have contributed to build them, no matter how poor they are.

Have you ever walked into the Vatican? My first question was "why?" I've also visited many Hindu temples in India; many are grand structures with gold used in them.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

But for the most part...we could meet and have a beer...glass of wine...coffee and crumb cake...

...and enjoy the hell out of one another's company.

Of course, and that'd be nice. You know, I have nothing against philosophical and even theological musings, ESPECIALLY with a bottle of whine at hand.

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@Frank Apisa,

Hey, I have nothing whatsover against philosophical or even theological musing, ESPECIALLY with a bottle of whine at hand (I usually need more than a glass)...

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@Cyracuz,

Seems to me that respecting someone's beliefs just allows bad ideas to survive unchallenged. If I were king of the world, I'd change that saying to, "Respect people, even as you challenge their ideas."

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@FBM,

Playing Devil's advocate just because wouldn't one argue people are their ideas ? Twisted Evil

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@Fil Albuquerque,

But, no, I wouldn't equate the person with the idea. What would happen when someone changed his mind about something? He would have to get a new driver's license and everything...

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Hey, I have nothing whatsover against philosophical or even theological musing, ESPECIALLY with a bottle of whine at hand (I usually need more than a glass)...

If you're going to whine about it, You will get none from me. Mr. Green

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Hey, I have nothing whatsover against philosophical or even theological musing, ESPECIALLY with a bottle of whine at hand (I usually need more than a glass)...

Stop whining...and you won't need as much wine.

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@Frank Apisa,

@ Olivier

By the way, Olivier...since you are supposedly new to this forum...lemme share this with you.

One of the most fun things in this place is to play games with the people pretending that they have you on "Ignore." They don't really. You've probably struck a nerve or injured a fragile ego...and they use that pretence the way a tot uses "I don't like you any more" to mommy when angry.

So if someone tells you he has you on ignore...or pretends to do so (I estimate it is a pretence about 94.6% of the time)...just give 'em a nudge once in a while. They cannot respond without giving the ruse away. (Unless of course, someone else quotes them...and they can pretend that is the only reason they realized a response was appropriate.)

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@Frank Apisa,

Just asking: Is this related to me? I put him/her and cicerone imposter on ignore not too long ago. If not, never mind.

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@FBM,

FBM wrote:

Just asking: Is this related to me? I put him/her and cicerone imposter on ignore not too long ago. If not, never mind.

Not at all, FBM.

I suspect the person to whom I addressed that knows I was addressing him...or will when he reads it. I was just "nudging!"

I've never personally put anyone on Ignore. I just listen to whatever people have to say...and respond if I think it appropriate. For the most part I don't take myself...or any of this too seriously. Talk on the Internet is an interesting way to pass time spent indoors; an activity I thoroughly enjoy.

On-line poker is about to come back into play in New Jersey soon, however...and I will probably spend more time playing poker (with Nancy's money) and less time in discussions.

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@Frank Apisa,

It's always wisest to play poker with someone else's money! I won $20 last weekend.

I have only ever put 3 people on ignore, and all of them here on this forum. JTT (JJT?) was the other one. I've just been getting tired of the non-stop one-upsmanship and belligerence lately. In Philosophy classes in undergrad, we learned how to argue without animosity or personalizing it into a contest. The idea was to share/compare ideas and find out how to improve them, not "win" anything.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

I'm not sure that they are competing systems.

I am not sure of that either, but it seems like a reasonable claim that moral concerns are being substituted more and more by economic concerns.

A good example is the imbalance of wealth in the world. We might say that the way the west treats the rest of the world is immoral, but morals doesn't even enter into the justification of our capitalistic edge and our effort to maintain it. In this matter, and in many others, moral considerations are being replaced by economic ones, which is another reason I have claimed that capitalism has taken on religious proportions, simply because economic principles are used more and more in place of moral principles.

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How is this definition of "belief"?

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