What would the World be like if JESUS had never been Born?

I bet Jesus would have been good on Jeopardy.

Sure, anybody would be. There was that must that know back, about as hard as it gets:

Who's buried in Kofu's tomb? :razz:

Jesus, as an individual, had virtually no impact on the world as it is. The religion that co-opted his name and myths that grew up around him have had the impact. For all we know, the real Jesus didn't teach anything that is contained in the Bible and he certainly didn't do any of the things attributed to him.

I'm pretty sure he wept. I'm also pretty sure he , at some point, drew in the sand....

The problem is, you can't even be sure he existed. At the time, street-corner messiahs were a dime a dozen, everyone was preaching salvation for the Jews. Jesus, if he existed at all, was likely just one of the many. It wasn't until later when Paul and other mythic writers came along and started borrowing myths from other cultures that the fable of Jesus, the Messiah came about.

Whether or not Jesus was real is up for personal interpretation, there simply isn't a shred of objective evidence to support it. In reality, it doesn't matter, the myths that arose are the basis of Christianity, not the poor, illiterate son of a carpenter that might have stood on the street corner and preached a message.

Answer: Exactly the way it is today.

So many people...
Hello, I just can't believe what this world has come too. I am a strong Christian and firmly believe in Jesus Christ. There is just so much disregard towards Jesus in this post...noone wants to know answers about Jesus, you just assume that he never existed or don't care, or pound on the validity of the Bible. There isn't much for me to answer here so i will just say two quick things, first please please please consider at least once the possibility of the Bible being true. and second, there is PLENTY of information about Christianity, if you don't believe the Bible then there is obviously not much you can do to show a certain physical being living a long time ago. BUT, there is so much that proves the Bible correct, if it is correct then Jesus was real and is the way, truth and life. If anyone CARES to learn about the HUDNREDS of real (science, math, biology) physical evidence about this, plz email [email protected]
Someone out there must have some hope for a truth....

Hi Crossfire, and welcome to A2K. You will find people of a similar mind to you here, also some, like me perhaps, of a more sceptical disposition. However I would never disparage someone's sincerely held religious beliefs, and I hope a certain level of politeness is maintained across the board. If it isn't then they should not be posting on this forum. On the other hand if someone is so sensitive about their beliefs that they would rather not have them examined in robust debate, then perhaps A2K is not for them. But whatever the topic, enjoy your time at A2K.

Crossfire
Crossfire, I think the reason that many people choose not to believe much of what is in the Bible is because they choose to think critically, and weigh the evidence. The sort of scientific proof that you talk about for the Bible only proves the technical aspects of it. I am more than willing to believe that Jesus existed as a person. That proves nothing. There is nothing you can show me that proves that he arrose from the dead, or that he walked on water, or that he was really a messenger from God. All that is just FAITH. Faith, by definition, can not be proven. If you think otherwise, you are taking religion far too literally in my opinion.
As for your request to please, please please, consider the possibility of the Bible being true....most atheists have considered this possiblity, crossfire, and have realized there is no real evidence for it.
Much of us out there do hope for the truth...but blind faith in the Bible is not the answer for most us, I dont think.
Also, you claim to have lots of scientific evidence that the bible is true. If you mean that you have scientific evidence that God exists....I challenge you to show us here on the forum.
Greg

Between skeptic and crossfire, I challenge neither and only wish they could come to a point where they allow each other to have their on mind. The middle is where I live and only wish each and every to my the higher power of their own understanding. Keep on keeping on

I understand what you are saying, Bill, but this is an Internet forum designed to have discussions -- often intense discussions -- on these topics.

I think both Steve and Skeptic said what they had to say in a respectful way -- and I find myself in fairly complete agreement with them both.

Crossfire certainly is free to argue the point -- and I hope he/she does.

As for "believing" the Bible -- well, I suppose that mean accepting the Bible.

To be honest, the last thing in the world that I would want to happen is for more people to be accepting of the Bible and its message. It is not a particularly pretty message that the Bible teaches -- and we would do well (to use Crossfire's words) to disregard it.

Crossfile
Of course I agree that Crossfire is entitled to his/her own opinions. But when claims are made of scientific fact that can back up the Bible and existence of God (a claim which I feel is clearly untrue), it deserves to be challenged. Many christians have claimed they have proof that the Bible was inspired by God. But, invariably when they are asked to give examples of this proof, they can not come up with significant evidence.
Greg

The don't need proof the Bible is defined as being inspired by God as part of being a Christian. It is the fundamental tenet of Christianity. You can't be a Christian unless you accept the divine inspiration of the Bible. This is why a lot of the arguments about proof are futile or circular.

You cannot challenge the fundamental axioms of the belief system when they are defined from the outset as being true. (sorry if this is sounding pompous)

To my mind its a bit like Euclidian and non-Euclian goemetry, or higher mathematics where "impossible" things can happen if you move up a dimension or two.

The Bible
Steve-
but the difference here is huge. I would not challenge a Christian who told me they believed the Bible was inspired by God. That is Faith, I would not challenge that.
What I am challenging here is the statement that "scientific" proof exists for the existence of a God. That is a very arguable statement. Big difference.
I agree that Christian's don't NEED proof. But fundamentalists still claim to have it. That is what I challenge.
Greg

"Proof." How do we prove anything?

I see the term "scientific proof" thrown around on this forum by people trying to present themselves as being especially enlightened, but are only succeeding in demonstrating their ignorance of some very basic things.

First of all when we talk about whether or not Jesus existed, what He did or did not do if He did exist, and whether or not He arose from the dead after being crucified are historic issues.

HISTORY CANNOT BE PROVED USING THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD! Historical facts are established through eyewitness accounts and empiracle evidences. These accounts are then evaluated by how close the records are to the actual events, the number of accounts and are the various accounts in agreement, and does the evidence (which may or may not be scientific in nature) support the accounts.

Think about it. You would not be able to prove that Abraham Lincoln ever existed, that the Civil War was ever fought, that slavery ever existed in the U.S., or that the Holocaust ever happened using the scientific method. But, you can prove all these, beyond a reasonable doubt, using the historical method.

Establishing Historical Facts is more like what happens in a criminal trial than like what happens in a Laboratry.

I, being a skeptic, when confronted with the evidence, came to the conclusion that Jesus was, and is, and forever will be, exactly who He said He was - God in the flesh Who came to Earth as a man because He loved us so much that He was willing to give His life to purchase our lives from destruction. He arose from the dead and because He lives we can live also when we put our trust in Him!

Now that's GOOD NEWS!

What good is the SCIENTIFIC METHOD? Well science is about observation and as we observe creation we see order...lots of order. We see DNA which we know contains volumes of specific information...libraries of information. When you walk into a library do you think, "Isn't nature great that produced all these books?" No, you know there is intelligence behind these works. Does your garage ever clean itself up? If you return home and find it clean and orderly you know someone was behind it. The Second Law of Thermodynamics requires it!

Can science proove God? No. But it can produce evidence that a trully critical thinker would want to investigate... or one can ignore the evidence withe rest of the flat Earth crowd.

If you have any interest in getting out of the dark ages go to www.christiananswers.com/ This is a good place to start your search.

how about this?
what if jesus christ knew what came of his teachings? look i know that any person with a christian identity will say that he knows, because he is god, but the fact of the matter is that he was a man. obiviously you can tell that i am not christian, but i think that jesus would be dissapointed to the point of insanity to know of the atrocities that have been commited under the doctrine of middle eastren belief systems. or maybe not, he might be very pleased. i dont really know, for i was not there. what matters here is the fact that that faith has predicted its own demise, which coincidentially occours before the end of the world. at least this one....


speak free

one thing's for sure dyslexia, it's easier to fit a chunk of opium into the bong than it would be to fit Jesus in there...so as a matter of practicallity I agree with you....

truth
What would the world be like had Jesus not been born? The same, I expect, because we would have made him up anyway--which is to a large extent what we have done.

oh yeah
If your a christian, then you should look no further than the bible. If you do you dont have faith, and therefore are not savet. Looking somewhere else, other than the bible, makes you the same as me. To be a christian you must say your sorry, and forever live under the shrowd of biblical texts. thank you

Speak Free :wink:

truth
I had a long talk with a fundamentalist minister (an ex-minister; he is too sincere to make a living at it). His most fundamental priinciple is that we are admonished by Jesus himself to adore and worship Him He is the light and the way, and only through Him can we yada yada. I commented at one point to him that I wonder if Jesus pointed the way to us and we responded by worshipping his finger. If he took offense, he concealed it. But my comments on his characterization of Jesus' admonitions--namely that his view of Jesus was the view of all-powerful Egotist in Cosmic Need of agrandisement from puny humans--were accepted as correct. There was nothing in this view of the Grand Egotist that bothered him. Jesus was the Lord and, as such, he deserved adoration and we were obliged to give it--or burn in Hell for eternity (meaning forever and forever). How can such a sweet man as this hold such ghastly beliefs?