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He’s a good kid….

 
 
Linkat
 
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 07:30 am
So the Marathon bombers were good kids according to their parents and friends. And the young men that helped them – yeah they were good kids too. And this 18 year old rapper that threatened to do worse than the bombers (not to mention had previously gotten into trouble with the police when he threaten to stab his sister) is also a good kid according to a neighbor. I’ve read news report after news report where some teen or young adult shoots, stabs or seriously hurts or kills some one else and the parents and neighbors say the same thing – he is a good kid.

I remember as a kid being in my parents’ car as we are driving home. And wham! Suddenly a rock hits the back side window and smashes it in (fortunately no one was sitting there). My dad pulls over and sees a bunch of teenagers start running. He gets out of the car and chases them (my slightly overweight middle age dad) – he catches one of them and holds him for the police. The mom runs out and says – what? He wouldn’t do that he such a nice kid! The police acknowledge the fact that this kid has been in trouble before.

Are these people stupid or naive? Good kids do not kill people; good kids do not threaten people’s lives’ good kids do not try to harm others. I’m sorry these are not good kids.
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 07:35 am
@Linkat,
From what I hear the comments from those that knew them that there was no indications that the two bombers was not good outstanding members of society.

That is not the same as stating after the fact of the bombings that they was good kids.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 07:59 am
What's the alternative? To assume all kids are bad and then when they do something bad say "I knew it!"?

We kind of already assume kids are bad -- look at the police presence in schools, or look at schools in general -- a lot of them look like prisons and are run like prisons. If you treat people like they are "bad" they usually won't disappoint you.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 08:09 am
The education forum I visit has been all abuzz about this school that fired it's security and invested in the arts: http://dailynightly.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/01/18005192-principal-fires-security-guards-to-hire-art-teachers-and-transforms-elementary-school?lite
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 08:41 am
@Linkat,
Gangs have been known to take care of families in their neighborhoods and lend aid when needed. I read that the Crips protected the tennis court where Venus and Serena Williams played at when they lived in Compton. The reality is that most kids are some good and some bad and the face you see at any given time shapes your perception. If someone is good 90% of the time, that leaves a lot of bad but a lot of people thinking you're "a good kid."
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 08:50 am
@boomerang,
I read that the Newtown voters was not willing to paid for having a permanent police present in their schools.

Strange that some of the parents who are pushing for guns control laws that they themselves had admitted would not had stop the killings of their children but their own community are not willing to paid for security that would had done so and I had not hear from any of them over the no extra taxes issue.
boomerang
 
  3  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 09:52 am
@BillRM,
There are a lot of reasons for not wanting armed, police presence in a school besides "not willing to pay for it". I don't want armed guards in Mo's school and it has nothing to do with money. I have voted in favor of many school bonds that raised my taxes but I wouldn't vote for one that put armed guards in the schools.

One of the smartest people I ever knew taught me one of the best lessons I ever learned: Never make rules based on exceptional circumstances.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 10:35 am
@boomerang,
I gave a couple of examples of where kids where in trouble with the police before - but yet these kids were called "nice kids". One with my dad's and mine own experience - the kid had already been in trouble (at least according to the police - his words yeah we know this kid he's also in trouble) - mom saying not my boy, he's a good kid.

Another this kid already been in trouble with the police for threatening to stab his sister - but yet the neighbor says he is a nice kid.

the bomber - his own uncle said his nephew was a loser, but yet the mom is saying he is an angel.

I'm not talking about the kids that this is their first time getting into trouble - I'm talking about repeat offenders, but yet all these people are saying - he's a nice boy. Yeah right, last week he said he was going to stab his sister and this week he is threatening to set off a bomb - yeah nice kid.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 11:09 am
@boomerang,
Come on they, the victims parents, are so concern about children safety that they are up before congress backing bills that would by their own words would not had stop the newton shootings however not a public word about their own community rejecting the one action that if it had been in place on that sad day have one hell of a good chance of saving those children lives.

Something is very very very strange here. I can see them supporting anti guns bills after losing children even if they know that it would not had change anything in their case but then not to support having security in their own schools in case of another nut killing someone to get firearms and heading for the school building!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 12:14 pm
@boomerang,
Not sure where you are all at school - but the opposite is true where my kids go to school. No police presence unless of course they are doing some sort of drill. No prison like at all - they simply need to buzz you in from the office, there are no police or any sort of security beyond that.

And they actually say the opposite - went a couple of weeks ago to a parents meeting to introduce parents for new incoming students to the middle school and the principal kept saying over and over again. These are good kids that are in this school. And similar when I went to a tour/meeting at the high school - they talk on and on about how good the kids are.

I don't think I've ever heard once about them speaking negatively about the students in the school. The closest was one teacher mentioned (as the current teachers give feedback to the teachers in middle school) that some of parents might not be happy about what they need to say.

But saying a kid is a nice kid right after hearing he killed someone - I'm sorry he isn't nice - he might have acted nice, but he isn't nice. And he many cases he hadn't even acted nice - when a policeman states he is familar with a particular kid because he has had to dealt with him several times - he isn't a nice kid.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 12:15 pm
@engineer,
That's like saying the mob is nice because they protect the family - you kill you ain't nice.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 01:09 pm
@Linkat,
I just think it's possible for a good kid to do a bad thing.

I'm not suggesting that they shouldn't be punished for doing a bad thing.

I think most of the time when people are interviewed and they say "s/he was so nice" it really just means that they never noticed them or paid any attention to them.

I also think it's possible for a kid to get in trouble (be brought to notice of the police) and still be a good kid. Adults too, for that matter.


boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 01:16 pm
@Linkat,
A lot of schools have "resource officers" which are policemen that are stationed at the school.

A lot of schools have metal detectors.

A lot of schools won't let kids carry backpacks because they're worried about someone having contraband.

A lot of schools lock the kids in and won't let them leave campus.

Do you believe the principal -- that they're all good kids?

Our neighborhood middle school says the same thing (and they don't have much security either) but my neighbor is a psychiatrist for the juvenile justice system and she tells me she gets LOTS of referrals from this school. She adds that most of the problems are swept under the rug because most of the area's families have enough money for lawyers.

I agree that a kid who kills someone isn't a good kid. I think there is a chance that they'd been good up until that point, or that they were good at hiding their bad intentions so nobody noticed it.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 01:23 pm
@Linkat,
Easy to see after the fact, but if you ask the woman if the gentleman who helped her carry her groceries up the stairs was a "nice man" she is probably going to say yes. If all you see is the good then you're going to be surprised to find out he's a murderer as his day job.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 04:18 pm
@boomerang,
Boomer, that was one of the most heartening articles I've read in a long time.

Thank you thank you thank you for that link.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 04:34 pm
@engineer,
I agree with that. I somewhat get how gangs have formed, gangs of many kinds in many places over centuries. I particularly abhor initiation stuff. You could not call me a fan of the gangs in the areas I've lived near/with them in (then V13 and Sholine Crips), but I think human nature is complex and that the Compton crips cared about families doesn't surprise me at all.
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FOUND SOUL
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 05:09 pm
@Linkat,
Quote:
But saying a kid is a nice kid right after hearing he killed someone - I'm sorry he isn't nice - he might have acted nice, but he isn't nice


I think most kids do bad things, yet, in love, they show alot of warmth and caring and so, are perceived also as good kids.

I also think a lot of kids, hide. Their childhood and abuse, and so, they walk around keeping that pain to themselves, therefore showing "a quiet kid, seemed nice".

A Mother in general in my opinion will always say "he was a good kid" ....

But this particular kid?

That is where I do believe in good and evil.

Maniuplated his then to be wife, to convert, to accept what ever he said, accept being a punching bag, where she had to report him to authorities and then drop the charges.

In my opinion, manipulated his younger brother as well, to be "like" him.

In-other-words the older brother was not in my opinion a "good kid" and if he was "good" to his Mother, she would see him as a good kid, fighting for some cause... But, did she as they suspect, instill in him, to fight for "a" cause... More than likely... She was the driving force, more than likely she didn't care if he hit his wife, he is " a man" and allowed... May be wrong, maybe a tad angry at her attitude from what I've read.... May........be.
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ossobuco
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 06:20 pm
I don't think mom is a terrorist, I just think she's nuts, but she's from a very different culture than mine, has adamant views that I suppose are facing a ramrod (what is a ramrod?) or cannons right now, and she is fluming defensive.
She did apparently converse about jihad from articles I've read, how neg or positive we don't know.
I think it was dad that called the younger son an angel, not her.
Maybe she was prime instigator? I've no idea and neither do most of us.

On the mother, she used to do beauty work. Something turned her too.
And I think dad didn't follow.
I'm trying to imagine being him.
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Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 07:28 am
@boomerang,
Of course it is - but I am talking extreme cases - killing people, repeat afforders, harming others - I am not talking stealing; I am refering to serious crimes or kids repeatedly in trouble.

A kid gets in trouble over and over with the police, but the parents/neighbors insist they are good kids- no they are not. I am not even saying in some cases they are bad, but they are not good. They are troubled and need serious help. Saying they are good does not help them at all.

I am not talking about those saying I thought he was good - I am talking about people insisting they are good kids. There is a difference between a classmate saying I'm surprised bomber 2 was involved he was always a good kid and his mom after overwhelming evidence insisting he is an angel - sorry meaning to bomb, maim and kill others does not make one an angel or even a good kid.

There is overwhelming evidence, police repeatedly at your door because your child is in trouble, you do a drive by shooting or stab someone at the subway station - that does warrant the title good kid.
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