Homosexual Agenda Exposed!!!!!!

I know, that's why I didn't really bother to challenge it. But dlowan didn't equate them, she just pointed out that it's a far cry more than what you called "inconsequential legal rights" and rightly so.

Your comparison seems to both be restricted to America and to the last century and even then manages to dismiss over 99% of their impediments, focusing only on the most recent polemy.

While you may not have meant to be dismissive, I'd say what you said was comparable to saying that the black struggle was all about a bus seat.

Again, not comparing the struggles since I see struggle competution as a bit cheesy, but saying that to blithely reduce it to what you call an insignificant issue is understandbly a challenge to others who do not feel that way.

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Where's RC when you need him to cheer things up.

I don't have evidence that RC's a "him" but I'd wager plenty of money on it!

ILZ - human rights are human rights. Equality is one of the principles of the foundation of the USA. Just because one struggle is greater, had further to go, does not mean that other struggles are not valid.

KP

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kitchenpete wrote:

ILZ - human rights are human rights. Equality is one of the principles of the foundation of the USA. Just because one struggle is greater, had further to go, does not mean that other struggles are not valid.

.....and I would never claim otherwise.

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No, ILZ, I did not know that you were being facetious - but I am glad to hear you say that you were being.

Perhaps a thread, however risible, where homosexuals are being accused of some sort of bizarre conspiracy is not the place to be so?

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Risible!! Fancy word there, bunny.

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caprice wrote:

Imagine how the gay black man feels.

If I do and I like it, does that make me gay? Shocked

:wink:

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No, but you might want to see about enrolling in a black studies program at the local u.

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Re: Homosexual Agenda Exposed!!!!!!

caprice wrote:

What I found at CDC does illustrate that statistically there are more homosexual men with HIV, but it also clearly shows that a significant number of heterosexual men and women have been exposed to HIV as well.

Unless I missed a memo, there is no question that the predicted heterosexual AIDS epidemic never materialized in the US. I remember reading extensively on the subject going back at least 15 years. This was known then.

That is not to say that heterosexuals can't contract AIDS, but simply that AIDS is considerably harder to pass through ideal* heterosexual sex than originally assumed, and as a result the rate of AIDS in heterosexuals in the US never came near predicted levels. Many of the original assumptions that went into the early predictions of a heterosexual epidemic in the US were inferred from looking at what was occurring in Africa. It turns out that sexual norms and behavior are very different between the two locations, and that behavior plays a key role in the high heterosexual transmission rates in Africa. A high correlation between the preexistence of other STDs and heterosexual transmission has been recognized for years in AIDS cases that were otherwise categorized as "NIR" (No Identifiable Risk)--essentially heterosexually transmitted AIDS. If you look at the rates of other STDs in Africa, it is easy to see a correlation between the higher rates of other STDs and the higher AIDS transmission rate for heterosexual sex.

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In other words, the warnings about AIDS that successfully change people's behavior in first world countries is being used to point at said warnings and call them missplaced to conspiratorial.

That's called circlar logic.

1) "Everyone leave the building it's going to burn down and we are all going to die!!!"

2) Everyone leaves. Building burns.

4) "What a load of ****, nobody died. We should have stayed in the building and ignored that idiotic warning."

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The US has been lucky. We have the advantage of a fairly well educated population, and access to at least adequate healthcare. Sex sans condoms is pretty much unthinklable for an entire generation, and this is probably what has prevented the predicted epidemic in the US and much of the developed world.

What I find interesting is the rise in HIV/AIDS in the former Soviet Union, and in Iran. Both appear to have much to do with the lowered standfard of living, the increased availability of IV drugs, and a concurrent rise in prostitution (which is a direct result of the failed economies of both nations). They should serve as a warning to the US.

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"Ideal" heterosexual sex???????????

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Craven de Kere wrote:

In other words, the warnings about AIDS that successfully change people's behavior in first world countries is being used to point at said warnings and call them missplaced to conspiratorial.

No, in other words, the original assumption that one could look at the spread of AIDS in Africa and infer that the same thing would happen in the US was flawed because it was based on a flawed premise; the the conditions under which AIDS transmission was rampant in Africa existed to the same degree in the US. They did and do not.

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Scrat wrote:

No, in other words, the original assumption that one could look at the spread of AIDS in Africa and infer that the same thing would happen in the US was flawed because it was based on a flawed premise; the the conditions under which AIDS transmission was rampant in Africa existed to the same degree in the US. They did and do not.

BECAUSE of said warnings. That's what you consistently fail to realize.

Again:

1) "Everyone leave the building it's going to burn and we are all going to die."

2) Everyone leaves, building burns.

3) "We all didn't die, the warning was false and we should have stayed in the building."

This is circular logic.

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Scrat, you are ingoring the behavioural changes that occurred in response to the advent of HIV/AIDS. These behavioural chages, which were dependent on the presence of a financial and public heath infrastructure that was not present in the developing world, prevented the pandemic that could have occurred. I'm curious if you believe that (using your own reasoning) since malaria control efforts haev been successful in the southern US, that malaria is solely a "foreign" disease, and should not be a concern for Americans?

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Dlowan,

This is probably the first time I've defended Scrat's position on something because I believe when he said:

"ideal* heterosexual sex"

he meant:

"non-traumatic vaginal intercourse" as stated in my previous post.

I think it's a problem with the way he worded it rather than his intention.

*That's the only part I'm defending*

-----------------------
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It is true that HIV is much harder to pass through "non-traumatic vaginal intercourse" than through anal sex. Please note that while researching my previous post I did come across an interesting stat that said 10% of hetero couples engaged in anal sex - so that risk is still there.

This next statement is pure speculation on my part, but it does seem logical...I think that hetero couples may be more likely to use condoms to avoid pregnancy (no risk with gay intercourse) and a side effect of that is a lowered incidence of HIV.

In poorer countries condom use is substantially less which leads to the epidemic some poorer countries are facing.

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Only 10%?

Are they only polling those in Iowa and the Bible Belt?

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Education is what has made the big difference in the wealthy countries. You'll note that in recently infected cases the infection trends are a lot closer between homosexuals and heterosexuals...it was just that initially HIV spread through the homosexual community more quickly.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

Scrat wrote:

No, in other words, the original assumption that one could look at the spread of AIDS in Africa and infer that the same thing would happen in the US was flawed because it was based on a flawed premise; the the conditions under which AIDS transmission was rampant in Africa existed to the same degree in the US. They did and do not.

BECAUSE of said warnings. That's what you consistently fail to realize.

NO. I am not dense, and I am not "failing to realize" anything. You are failing to understand (or to acknowledge) the point I am making.

STDs were and remain rampant in Africa at levels far above those seen in the US. There was no sudden change in the instances of those STDs in the US. The heterosexual epidemic wasn't prevented by a change in behavior, it was never likely given the environment within which AIDS had to work in this country. That's what researchers found when they began to question why the expected explosion in heterosexual cases never materialized.

It is a simple, unfortunate fact that far more people in Africa were infected with STDs which created an opportunity for transmission through open lesions during intercourse. Healthy skin tends to act as a barrier to HIV. Lesions, sores, even abrasions from rough or poorly lubricated intercourse create a dramatic increase in the likelihood that HIV will pass to the partner during sex. This is why it is so easily transmitted by anal intercourse, as said activity almost always results in some tearing of the rectum.

(JER - Yes, that is what I meant by "ideal"... not likely to create a rupture of the skin advantageous to HIV transmittal.) Very Happy

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Jer wrote:

Education is what has made the big difference in the wealthy countries. You'll note that in recently infected cases the infection trends are a lot closer between homosexuals and heterosexuals...it was just that initially HIV spread through the homosexual community more quickly.

Does that mean that the rate of transmission in homosexuals has dropped to more closely match the rate in heterosexuals?

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I think that the media craze about HIV in the mid-80s is more likely what stopped an epidemic from occurring in N.America. I was in junior high at that point and there was a lot of formal discussion about HIV in school - everyone knew what they needed to do and most of us did use protection all the time.

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Homosexual Agenda Exposed!!!!!!

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