dlowan wrote:IronLionZion wrote:Craven de Kere wrote:Dissimilar in circumstance yet very similar in that both are confronted by visceral prejudices. IMO, that similarity is profound in nature.
Indeed. But dissimilar in that one was a struggle against
segregation and a history of
slavery. The gay rights movement, on the other hand, is primarily a struggle to win over the
acceptance of society in general and to secure some symbolic, but rather inconsequential legal rights in marriage. That, IMO, is a dissimilarity profound in nature, Please, do not even attempt to compare the stuggle against slavery and its legacy to the stuggle for Steve to wed Steve.
Forgive me for derailing the thread, but your comments here betray enormous ignorance, ILZ.
I do not challenge your right to find the gay rights movement's co-option of tactics and such from the civil rights movement irking, ILZ - because I make no claim to understand the full experience of black people in the US.
However, to dismiss the struggles of the gay movement as:
"
acceptance of society in general and to secure some symbolic, but rather inconsequential legal rights in marriage. That, IMO, is a dissimilarity profound in nature, Please, do not even attempt to compare the stuggle against slavery and its legacy to the stuggle for Steve to wed Steve.
"
IronLionZion wrote:is outrageous. You should be more careful to know of what you speak before you do.
Are you unaware of the history of extreme violence against gay men (in particular men)? Of how many gay men have been, and still are, beaten up and murdered purely for their sexual orientation?
Of how much employment discrimination they have, and still do, suffer?
Of how much psychological trauma discrimination still causes? Of homosexuality as a risk factor in suicide?
Forgive me - you have only known the situation of gays in the USA over the last 20 years, where there has been some real progress - as there has been in many other western countries.
I disagree with ILZ on many topics, but on this one I have to agree with him.
Comparing the 'trial and tribulations' of the homosexual community with what occurred to the African community is like a group of civil disobedience protestors who spent a night in jail saying they now understand the plight of those imprisoned in the Soviet Gulags.
The one thing that must be remembered is:
Yes there have been incidents where homosexuals were 'singled out' and beaten/killed for no other reason than their orientation.
The same can be said about just about ANY group. Everyone has heard of someone who was harmed because of their: religion/skin color/nationality etc.
It is fairly simple to spot an African descendant and thus the prejudices that go towards them are immediate and long standing, it is MUCH harder to 'spot' a homosexual just walking down the street.
Although the homosexual community has had their problems, please don't for a MINUTE believe that it can compare with the problems of the African community.
*Note, I use African and African descendant to not only count African-Americans, but Africans who receive discrimination ANYWHERE on the planet (African-Canadian, African-European etc)