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What do you believe is true, but cannot prove?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 02:17 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5305387)
No bullshit ?...


None at all, Fil.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 02:23 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5305386)
Lets be honest Frank I am sure you know belief drives action...what would be the purpose of getting up in the morning if you didn't believe without certainty that life will keep being worthwhile...


If you want to call that a "belief" Fil...go for it.

I do not.

Actually, my life is very, very enjoyable. I wake up each morning ready to get goin'. Now that Spring has sprung, life for me starts with a round of golf (except for the two days when I work at the golf course so I can golf without paying.)

Then yard work...some items from the Honey-Do list...winding down to some time watching TV with Nancy and playing with the cat.

Week-ends we go to a show...or to New Hope...or down the shore...or to the City.

No believing going on. Just enjoyment.

I hope things stay like this, but realistically I have to face the fact that I am getting older...olderrrrrr!...and some day in the not too distant future, the enjoyment may give way to something else less pleasant.

I'm guessing I can handle that also.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 02:25 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank, Your planning to play golf is not in your realm of reality. Why do you bother? LOL
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 02:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5305415)
Frank, Your planning to play golf is not in your realm of reality. Why do you bother? LOL


Is there any particular reason you think that?

LOL, LOL!
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 02:53 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank...I was not saying your life is not great...I was making a point that when you get up you must have good expectations upon the day forward but since you haven't live it yet you cannot be certain of it or that something bad is not gonna happen...yes you do have beliefs Frank ask any Psychology expert, or ask 100 if you want a statistical average...you will get a 100% consensus...I am not bullshiting you nor peaking your leg for sport...
margo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 03:50 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

I sincerely believe, but cannot prove, that Vegemite comes direct from the devil's bottom after a heavy night on the ale.


You are a very evil being! And stop leading that poor susceptible Setanta astray!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 04:03 pm
Surely you're not saying he would lie ? ! ? ! ? Lord help us . . .
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 04:10 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5305415)
Frank...I was not saying your life is not great...I was making a point that when you get up you must have good expectations upon the day forward but since you haven't live it yet you cannot be certain of it or that something bad is not gonna happen...yes you do have beliefs Frank ask any Psychology expert, or ask 100 if you want a statistical average...you will get a 100% consensus...I am not bullshiting you nor peaking your leg for sport...


Fil...I DO NOT HAVE BELIEFS. I have guesses and I have expectations and I make estimates...

...BUT I DO NOT HAVE BELIEFS.

You are not required to accept that...and continue to suppose you know more about me than I know about me if you choose. That will not change things.

Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 04:35 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Beliefs are expectations Frank...informed not informed it doesn't matter, as long you are not certain they portray beliefs !...



Human brain is hardwired to see patterns were sometimes there is only noise...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 04:37 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You wrote,
Quote:
...BUT I DO NOT HAVE BELIEFS.


It's funny how sure you are about not knowing reality.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 05:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Having come late to this thread I may have missed CI's response that "Jews are vile."
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 05:41 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5305544)
Beliefs are expectations Frank...informed not informed it doesn't matter, as long you are not certain they portray beliefs !...


I do not do "believing", Fil.

When I have "expectations"...I call them expectations.

Frankly, it does not particularly bother me that people might think my "expectations" to be "beliefs"...but many people call their blind guesses about REALITY..."beliefs"...which I consider an underhanded way of presenting guesses in disguise. That I do not do...and I never label any of my guesses or expectations as beliefs.

Earlier I said that I do not know the true nature of REALITY...and you and others got all over me about it...demanding that I do know the true nature of REALITY....even though philosophers and scientists throughout history have labored over the question and come up short.

Now I am saying that I do not do "believing"...and explaining exactly what I mean by that.

And you are insisting that I do "believing."

What is that all about?

0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 05:42 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5305544)
You wrote,
Quote:
...BUT I DO NOT HAVE BELIEFS.



It's funny how sure you are about not knowing reality.


AND WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH BELIEFS????
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 05:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
OK, Frank!
We believe you. Sheesh!
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 05:46 pm
God
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 05:50 pm
Every thread is improved by having a sound track . . .

margo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 08:17 pm
@Setanta,
Yes - you really are evil!!!

(i'm a believer! Twisted Evil )
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 08:47 pm
@margo,
Old trick...trivial, en passent, stir the waters and move away...the royal Highness has come to the balcony and waved...its not evil is just hilarious !

0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Apr, 2013 11:22 pm
Constructor Theory might be true, it sounds appealing, but hardly provable
Here is another link for an interesting video:
Link: http://www.edge.org/videos/topic/universe
0 Replies
 
Razzleg
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Apr, 2013 12:38 am
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

The Edge wrote:
"WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE IS TRUE EVEN THOUGH YOU CANNOT PROVE IT?"

Great minds can sometimes guess the truth before they have either the evidence or arguments for it (Diderot called it having the "esprit de divination"). What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?


This question was asked of "Great Minds" and some of their answers can be found in this link: http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_2.html. It makes for some very interesting reading.

But I thought it might be fun to ask the minds of A2K the same question...


Everything is connected...i have no evidence of "everything", but the connections i can observe seem to go everywhere.

Setanta wrote:

You may get people trying to bullsh*t you that they don't believe anything without evidence or that they "don't do belief." Don't you listen to that. There are things we may believe which cannot be proven, but about which we don't care that it can't be proven. Then there are things which we believe for what we consider to be good reason, but which are entirely subjective in nature.


Well said.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Fil...I DO NOT HAVE BELIEFS. I have guesses and I have expectations and I make estimates...

...BUT I DO NOT HAVE BELIEFS.

You are not required to accept that...and continue to suppose you know more about me than I know about me if you choose. That will not change things.


No offense, Frank, but i have to assume that your argument is the product of semantic intransigence or finagling. "Belief" is a pretty flexible term.

It seems to me that scientific hypotheses are "beliefs" until they are tested, beliefs based on previous scientific data and physical prompts. Once that hypothesis is repeatedly tested by experiment, that prior belief is elevated to the status of theorem or denounced as error. The prior belief is qualified by the experiment, but regardless of its practical value, such a belief may still retain an historical value (in contrast to its truth value.)

The term "belief" does not imply an "anti-empirical" bias, nor does it condone blind faith. Guesses, expectations, and estimates all seem to fall under the rubric of belief, variations of its most fragile, mutable, and testable forms.

Belief introduces doubt. It may seem unfortunate that the priority is not reversed; but if it were, doubt would have nothing to take apart, and doubt is incapable of putting anything together.
 

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