Guns And The Laws That Govern Them

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@RexRed,

RexRed wrote:

I want BOTH to be a personal choice,
if u can pay for EITHER.

Altho we know that we ALL have
the Constitutional Right to bear arms,
but no right to health insurance.

David

0 Replies

The Detroit News
Detroit-- If more citizens were armed, criminals would think twice
about attacking them, Detroit Police Chief James Craig said Thursday.

Urban police chiefs are typically in favor of gun control or reluctant
to discuss the issue, but Craig on Thursday was candid about how he's
changed his mind.

"When we look at the good community members who have concealed
weapons licenses, the likelihood they'll shoot is based on a lack of
confidence in this Police Department," Craig said at a press conference
at police headquarters, adding that he thinks more Detroit citizens
feel safer, thanks in part to a 7 percent drop in violent crime in 2013.

Craig said he started believing that legal gun owners can deter crime
when he became police chief in Portland, Maine, in 2009.

"Coming from California (Craig was on the Los Angeles police force
for 28 years), where it takes an act of Congress to get a concealed
weapon license, I got to Maine, where they give out lots of CCWs
(carrying concealed weapon licenses), and I had a stack of CCW
licenses I was denying; that was my orientation.

"I changed my orientation real quick. Maine is one of the safest places
in America. Clearly, suspects knew that good Americans were armed."

Craig's statements Thursday echoed those he made Dec. 19 on
"The Paul W. Smith Show" on WJR (760 AM), when he said: "There's a
number of CPL (concealed pistol license) holders running around the
city of Detroit. I think it acts as a deterrent. Good Americans with
CPLs translates into crime reduction. I learned that real quick in
the state of Maine."

Robyn Thomas, director of the the Law Center to Prevent Gun
Violence in San Francisco, disagreed.

"I think at its core, his position is an emotional one, based on the idea
that people feel safer when they have guns, but studies have shown
more guns don't deter crime," Thomas said. "There's no research that
shows guns make anyone safer, and it does show that, the more guns
in any situation, the higher the likelihood of them harming either the
owner, or people who have access to them."

Rick Ector of the Firearm Academy of Detroit, which teaches gun safety
classes, said Craig's comments are unusual for a police official.

"It's a huge, radical departure for the police chief to say
good people should have access to firearms," said Ector.
"I'm not ready to say he's pro-gun just yet, but it's vastly different
from what police chiefs have said in the past."

Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police director Robert Stevenson agreed.

"A lot of police officers have no problem at all with law-abiding
citizens having guns," Stevenson said.

"I think it's probably like the citizenry: Some are for it, some are against it,
but most police chiefs don't want to talk about the subject.

"It's a divisive issue, and a lot of times chiefs are reluctant to get in
the middle of those debates. Gun control, the death penalty -- most
chiefs try to stay out of those discussions. Craig speaks his mind;
you've got to give him credit for that."

According to a March 2013 anonymous poll of 15,000 officers by the
law enforcement website policeone.com., almost 90 percent of the
respondents believed casualties would be decreased if armed citizens
were present during shooting incidents, while more than 80 percent
supported arming teachers who were trained with firearms.

Although Craig said more responsible gun owners would likely lower crime,
in the past he also has called for a ban on assault weapons, regulating
high-capacity magazines, tighter restrictions on Internet ammunition
sales and more stringent background checks for merchants who sell
firearms at gun shows.

Detroit police have reported 73 justifiable homicides in the city since 2011.
The number in 2013 was 15, down from 25 the previous year.

Most of those cases involved citizens who defended themselves by killing criminals.
Among them: 77-year-old Willie White, who in March 2012, fatally shot a man
who'd broken into his northwest Detroit home.

Prior to the incident, White's home had been broken into several times.
The break-ins stopped after he killed the 18-year-old intruder, he said.

"I think these criminals would definitely think twice if they knew
more citizens were armed," White said. "I know it stopped them from breaking into my place."

[All emfasis has been added by David.]

0 Replies

A Congressional Research Service (CRS) report shows that while gun
ownership climbed from 192 million firearms in 1994
to 310 million firearms in 2009, crime fell sharply.

According to the report, the "firearm-related murder and non-negligent
homicide" rate was 6.6 per 100,000 Americans in 1993. Following the
exponential growth in the number of guns, that rate fell to 3.6 per 100,000 in 2000.

This rate rose from 2004 to 2005 and got as high as 3.9 in 2006 and 2007,
but it then resumed falling in 2008, the year the Supreme Court ruled
in District of Columbia v. Heller that individual firearm possession
is Constitutionally protected particularly for self-defense.
This figure fell to 3.2 per 100,000 by 2011.

In other words, as the number of firearms almost doubled over a nearly
20-year period, the "firearm-related murder and non-negligent homicide"
rate was more than halved.

Additionally, the overall murder rate dropped from 9.0 per 100,000
in 1994 to 4.7 in 2011. The overall number of estimated murder
victims fell from 23,326 in 1994 to 14,612 in 2011. For estimated
firearms-related murder victims, those numbers are 16,333 in 1994
and 9,903 in 2011.

The firearm category that led the way from 1994 through 2009 was handguns and
these were "mostly pistols, revolvers, and derringers," the most concealable types of guns.

So after after all the pro-gun control grandstanding and the relentless
focus on how the so-called easy availability of guns drives up crime,
the CRS report shows that more guns especially more concealable guns
was actually correlated with less crime.

[All emfasis has been added by David.]

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

There are a number of other reasons, Dave, for falls in crime statistics.

In the period you mention sun spot activity decreased. Was that a factor?

Do you think all countries are entitled to have nukes?

1 Reply

SUCCESSFUL HOME DEFENSE

A 63-year-old homeowner and his wife had just returned to their home
in Olympia, Wash. when the couple heard suspicious noises coming from
the second floor of the house. The homeowner retrieved a handgun,
went to investigate, and happened upon an intruder, who attempted
to attack him. The homeowner responded by firing at the intruder,
striking him in the leg and ending the confrontation.

Following the shooting, the criminal was taken to a local hospital
where his wounds were described as non-life-threatening. Police have
no intent to charge the homeowner, with Thurston County Sheriff’s
Sgt. Ken Clark stating, “The suspect is the one who escalated
the incident beyond what initially started.” (The Olympian, Olympia, Wash. 01/21/14)

0 Replies

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

There are a number of other reasons, Dave, for falls in crime statistics.

In the period you mention sun spot activity decreased. Was that a factor?

No. I notice that u suppressionists endeavor
to make a citizen 's possession of guns appear as bad as possible.
England is now an anti-freedom country.

spendius wrote:

Do you think all countries are entitled to have nukes?

Yes, as an attribute of sovereignty,
however, as an aspect of defending ourselves,
Americans and Israel need to actively ensure that Iran does not get them, regardless.

0 Replies

The ‘alarming regularity’ of gun violence
http://www.msnbc.com/now-with-alex-wagner/watch/the-alarming-regularity-of-gun-violence-128426051881?cid=sm_facebook_video

1 Reply

California: Assemblyman Brian Jones on the Second Amendment

Posted on January 27, 2014

Recently your Assemblyman Brian Jones submitted a column to the
Romona Sentinel. Please take a moment to read it below about his
stance on the Second Amendment.

Second Amendment Views by Assemblyman Brian Jones

Dear Ramona Sentinel Readers:

In recent weeks several constituents have contacted my office
informing me they are offended about comments I’ve made regarding
the Second Amendment. This is an open letter to all of my constituents
to share the background of my views on the Second Amendment.

Please know that my position on the topic of the Second Amendment
and gun ownership have not been made in haste. I have done some
significant study and research in the past few years — most notably since
my election to the Legislature. I now have a more distinct perspective,
and question why the Second Amendment is offensive to so many,
when our other constitutional rights are not?

Few argue with anyone’s right to free speech, freedom of religion, or
our right to due process. Nor is there much argument about our right to a
jury trial, or the abolition of slavery. Why then, does the Second Amendment
cause such heartburn for some?

I believe it is largely due to revisionist history of the intent of our
Founders — each of whom were thoughtful and intelligent men
(much more than I). They had a keen understanding for the very
basic need to protect self, family and home. What’s more, they knew
full well what comes with a tyrannical government. Their words make
it abundantly clear they believed the individual right to own firearms
was very important:

Thomas Jefferson said, “No free man shall be debarred the use of arms.”

Patrick Henry said, “The great object is, that every man be armed.”

Richard Henry Lee wrote that, “to preserve liberty it is essential
that the whole body of people always possess arms.”

Thomas Paine noted, “[A]rms … discourage and keep the invader and the
plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property.”

The Constitution repeatedly refers to the “rights” of the people and
to the “powers” of government. The Supreme Court has recognized
that the phrase “the people,” which is used in numerous parts of the
Constitution, including the Preamble, the Second, Fourth, Ninth and
Tenth amendments, refers to people as individuals. In each case,
rights belonging to “the people” are without question the rights of individuals.

Since my election to the Assembly, I have seen firsthand how grossly
the issue of gun ownership is being politically manipulated. There is
little room for reason and virtually no room for the facts in the debate.

I find it noteworthy that the number of privately owned guns in the U.S.
has reached an all-time high of over 300 million, and is actually
increasing by approximately 10 million per year. I am not surprised
that, given this data, the firearm accident death rate has fallen to an
all-time low, 0.2 per 100,000 population, down 94 percent since the
high in 1904. Actually, in the past 80-plus years, the annual number
of firearm accident deaths has decreased 81 percent, while our
nation’s population has more than doubled and the number of firearms
has grown by five times.

Many facts could actually lend some reason to the debate.
For example, the National Safety Council reports that firearms are
used for personal defense 2.5 million times a year — which equates to
a whopping 6,850 times a day. This means that each year, firearms
are used 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens
than to take lives, and as many as 200,000 women use a gun every year
to defend themselves against sexual abuse.

Protection of our life and liberty is a multi-pronged effort, and I take
great care to work closely with members of law enforcement. Those
who stand between the law-abiding and the lawless have a difficult task,
and my call for individuals to become informed on the topic of
personal firearm ownership comes from the understanding that
we can’t rely on law enforcement to be everywhere at all times.

Most solutions to our crime rate will not come from Sacramento.
It might surprise you that police are not even required to protect you:
in Warren v. District of Columbia (1981), the D.C. Court of Appeals
ruled, “police personnel and the government employing them are not
generally liable to victims of criminal acts for failure to provide
adequate police protection . . . . [A] government and its agents are
under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection,
to any particular citizen.” In Bowers v. DeVito (1982), the Seventh
Circuit Court of Appeals ruled “[T]here is no constitutional right to be
protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen.”
That said, it is up to each one of us to safeguard our home and families.

I trust that with this background, you may have a better understanding
of my thoughts because my views follow much careful deliberation
and study. The subject of firearms and the Second Amendment are
serious and have been weighed with factual evidence as well as a
deep consideration of our constitutionally protected rights.

Thanks for listening.

0 Replies

@RexRed,

By Frank Warner, Of The Morning Call
7:06 p.m. EST, January 16, 2014

An Allentown man shot and killed one of three young men who tried
to rob him in front of his home Wednesday night, witnesses said.

Five to seven shots rang out about 10:35 p.m. in the 600 block of
Westminster Street, a block south of Hanover Avenue. Two of the
males ran off and the third was shot and killed.

Witnesses and neighbors said the shooter, a man in his 50s, had a license
to carry a firearm and the would-be robbers appeared to be in their teens.
Abi Torres said the shooter was his father-in-law, and police initially
placed him handcuffs while they sorted out what happened.

After firing the shots, Torres said his father-in-law shouted, "They
tried to get me, they tried to get me."
The father-in-law was released from police custody and taken by
ambulance to an area hospital. Torres speculated the incident may
have aggravated his father-in-law's heart condition.
Police declined to discuss the shooting and closed off Westminster
Street between Fenwick and Graham streets while the dead man was
still lying on the ground. Lehigh County Coroner Scott Grim arrived
about 11:10 p.m.

Witnesses said they saw three young men in hoodies run down
Hanover Avenue to Westminster Street and jump the shooter outside his home.
One said the men appeared to be in their teens,
but police later found the man who was killed was 35 years old.
Christina Mitchell said the gunfire awakened her in her home a block away.
"It was about five gunshots," she said, "like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam."

Neighbors sympathized with the shooter, saying he was lucky to have been armed.
— Frank Warner

[All emfasis has been added by David.]

0 Replies

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) —
A Minneapolis man helped stop a robbery by pulling a gun on the bad guys.
Matt Dosser saw two men standing outside the University Market in
northeast Minneapolis Tuesday night. One had a gun, and they
had just attacked the clerk inside. “I was really scared for his life,”
Dosser said. “They were trying to kill him, in my opinion.”

It was his immediate reaction when he saw two men enter his store
around 9:15 p.m. They wore their hoodies tight around their faces,
and they began asking questions that didn’t make sense.
After a couple uneasy minutes, they attacked.
“It happened in no time,” said the store’s owner, Mohamed Ahmed.

One of the men jumped over the counter while the other pulled a gun
and went after Ahmed. It was captured on surveillance video.
The gunman started going through Ahmed’s pockets and then pistol-
whipped him on the head.
Ahmed said he wrestled with them.
The robbers eventually fled and Ahmed locked the door, but a minute
later they decided to try to break back in.

“By their behaviors and from what I saw, it appeared they were trying
to get back into the store to finish the job,” Dosser said.
Dosser happened to be walking by University Market and saw a man
with a gun pounding on the door. The gunman then looked at Dosser.
“There’s a million thoughts that go through your head in that, you know,
10 to 20 seconds,” Dosser said.

With a license to carry a firearm, Dosser said he pulled out his own gun
and held it at the ready position. That’s when the two men got into
their vehicle and took off.

Ahmed is thankful that Dosser arrived when he did. His head injury
required six staples, and he’s hoping this story helps find those responsible.
Dosser helped Ahmed call 911, and police arrived a few minutes later.
The gunman stole some cash from Ahmed’s pocket, but that’s all that was taken.

[All emfasis has been added by David.]

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) —
A Minneapolis man helped stop a robbery by pulling a gun on the bad guys.
Matt Dosser saw two men standing outside the University Market in
northeast Minneapolis Tuesday night. One had a gun, and they
had just attacked the clerk inside. “I was really scared for his life,”
Dosser said. “They were trying to kill him, in my opinion.”

It was his immediate reaction when he saw two men enter his store
around 9:15 p.m. They wore their hoodies tight around their faces,
and they began asking questions that didn’t make sense.
After a couple uneasy minutes, they attacked.
“It happened in no time,” said the store’s owner, Mohamed Ahmed.

One of the men jumped over the counter while the other pulled a gun
and went after Ahmed. It was captured on surveillance video.
The gunman started going through Ahmed’s pockets and then pistol-
whipped him on the head.
Ahmed said he wrestled with them.
The robbers eventually fled and Ahmed locked the door, but a minute
later they decided to try to break back in.

“By their behaviors and from what I saw, it appeared they were trying
to get back into the store to finish the job,” Dosser said.
Dosser happened to be walking by University Market and saw a man
with a gun pounding on the door. The gunman then looked at Dosser.
“There’s a million thoughts that go through your head in that, you know,
10 to 20 seconds,” Dosser said.

With a license to carry a firearm, Dosser said he pulled out his own gun
and held it at the ready position. That’s when the two men got into
their vehicle and took off.

Ahmed is thankful that Dosser arrived when he did. His head injury
required six staples, and he’s hoping this story helps find those responsible.
Dosser helped Ahmed call 911, and police arrived a few minutes later.
The gunman stole some cash from Ahmed’s pocket, but that’s all that was taken.

[All emfasis has been added by David.]

Those guys were sure lucky it wasn't you or Bill walking past! Wink

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) —
A Minneapolis man helped stop a robbery by pulling a gun on the bad guys.
Matt Dosser saw two men standing outside the University Market in
northeast Minneapolis Tuesday night. One had a gun, and they
had just attacked the clerk inside. “I was really scared for his life,”
Dosser said. “They were trying to kill him, in my opinion.”

It was his immediate reaction when he saw two men enter his store
around 9:15 p.m. They wore their hoodies tight around their faces,
and they began asking questions that didn’t make sense.
After a couple uneasy minutes, they attacked.
“It happened in no time,” said the store’s owner, Mohamed Ahmed.

One of the men jumped over the counter while the other pulled a gun
and went after Ahmed. It was captured on surveillance video.
The gunman started going through Ahmed’s pockets and then pistol-
whipped him on the head.
Ahmed said he wrestled with them.
The robbers eventually fled and Ahmed locked the door, but a minute
later they decided to try to break back in.

“By their behaviors and from what I saw, it appeared they were trying
to get back into the store to finish the job,” Dosser said.
Dosser happened to be walking by University Market and saw a man
with a gun pounding on the door. The gunman then looked at Dosser.
“There’s a million thoughts that go through your head in that, you know,
10 to 20 seconds,” Dosser said.

With a license to carry a firearm, Dosser said he pulled out his own gun
and held it at the ready position. That’s when the two men got into
their vehicle and took off.

Ahmed is thankful that Dosser arrived when he did. His head injury
required six staples, and he’s hoping this story helps find those responsible.
Dosser helped Ahmed call 911, and police arrived a few minutes later.
The gunman stole some cash from Ahmed’s pocket, but that’s all that was taken.

[All emfasis has been added by David.]

Frank Apisa wrote:

Those guys were sure lucky it wasn't you or Bill walking past!

NO, no, no; I don t wanna be a hero;
ONLY if the victim were a good friend. Then, I 'd have to help.
If not, then I 'd most likely just call 911.

1 of my good friends is a fanatical pacifist. He might get mad
at me for helping him out.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) —
A Minneapolis man helped stop a robbery by pulling a gun on the bad guys.
Matt Dosser saw two men standing outside the University Market in
northeast Minneapolis Tuesday night. One had a gun, and they
had just attacked the clerk inside. “I was really scared for his life,”
Dosser said. “They were trying to kill him, in my opinion.”

It was his immediate reaction when he saw two men enter his store
around 9:15 p.m. They wore their hoodies tight around their faces,
and they began asking questions that didn’t make sense.
After a couple uneasy minutes, they attacked.
“It happened in no time,” said the store’s owner, Mohamed Ahmed.

One of the men jumped over the counter while the other pulled a gun
and went after Ahmed. It was captured on surveillance video.
The gunman started going through Ahmed’s pockets and then pistol-
whipped him on the head.
Ahmed said he wrestled with them.
The robbers eventually fled and Ahmed locked the door, but a minute
later they decided to try to break back in.

“By their behaviors and from what I saw, it appeared they were trying
to get back into the store to finish the job,” Dosser said.
Dosser happened to be walking by University Market and saw a man
with a gun pounding on the door. The gunman then looked at Dosser.
“There’s a million thoughts that go through your head in that, you know,
10 to 20 seconds,” Dosser said.

With a license to carry a firearm, Dosser said he pulled out his own gun
and held it at the ready position. That’s when the two men got into
their vehicle and took off.

Ahmed is thankful that Dosser arrived when he did. His head injury
required six staples, and he’s hoping this story helps find those responsible.
Dosser helped Ahmed call 911, and police arrived a few minutes later.
The gunman stole some cash from Ahmed’s pocket, but that’s all that was taken.

[All emfasis has been added by David.]

Frank Apisa wrote:
Those guys were sure lucky it wasn't you or Bill walking past!
NO, no, no; I don t wanna be a hero;
ONLY if the victim were a good friend. Then, I 'd have to help.
If not, then I 'd most likely just call 911.

1 of my good friends is a fanatical pacifist. He might get mad
at me for helping him out.

David

Just pulling your leg, David.

Actually, when I started that smart-ass comment of mine, I was going to say, "Those guys were lucky it was George Zimmerman who happened by."...but I noticed at the last second that this was not the Florida thread...so I changed it to you and Bill

I would sincerely hope neither of you ever have to deal with something like that.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) —
A Minneapolis man helped stop a robbery by pulling a gun on the bad guys.
Matt Dosser saw two men standing outside the University Market in
northeast Minneapolis Tuesday night. One had a gun, and they
had just attacked the clerk inside. “I was really scared for his life,”
Dosser said. “They were trying to kill him, in my opinion.”

It was his immediate reaction when he saw two men enter his store
around 9:15 p.m. They wore their hoodies tight around their faces,
and they began asking questions that didn’t make sense.
After a couple uneasy minutes, they attacked.
“It happened in no time,” said the store’s owner, Mohamed Ahmed.

One of the men jumped over the counter while the other pulled a gun
and went after Ahmed. It was captured on surveillance video.
The gunman started going through Ahmed’s pockets and then pistol-
whipped him on the head.
Ahmed said he wrestled with them.
The robbers eventually fled and Ahmed locked the door, but a minute
later they decided to try to break back in.

“By their behaviors and from what I saw, it appeared they were trying
to get back into the store to finish the job,” Dosser said.
Dosser happened to be walking by University Market and saw a man
with a gun pounding on the door. The gunman then looked at Dosser.
“There’s a million thoughts that go through your head in that, you know,
10 to 20 seconds,” Dosser said.

With a license to carry a firearm, Dosser said he pulled out his own gun
and held it at the ready position. That’s when the two men got into
their vehicle and took off.

Ahmed is thankful that Dosser arrived when he did. His head injury
required six staples, and he’s hoping this story helps find those responsible.
Dosser helped Ahmed call 911, and police arrived a few minutes later.
The gunman stole some cash from Ahmed’s pocket, but that’s all that was taken.

[All emfasis has been added by David.]

Frank Apisa wrote:
Those guys were sure lucky it wasn't you or Bill walking past!
NO, no, no; I don t wanna be a hero;
ONLY if the victim were a good friend. Then, I 'd have to help.
If not, then I 'd most likely just call 911.

1 of my good friends is a fanatical pacifist. He might get mad
at me for helping him out.

David

Frank Apisa wrote:

Just pulling your leg, David.

Actually, when I started that smart-ass comment of mine, I was going to say, "Those guys were lucky it was George Zimmerman who happened by."...but I noticed at the last second that this was not the Florida thread...so I changed it to you and Bill

I would sincerely hope neither of you ever have to deal with something like that.

Thank u. It already happened years ago,
when someone took a potshot at me on the road at nite.
I 'm pretty sure that he did not expect a counter-attack.

David

0 Replies

PROFIT OVER LIFE

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1618062_779892055371695_1742940998_o.jpg

1 Reply

@RexRed,

RexRed wrote:

PROFIT OVER LIFE

Its not as much profit
as it is DEFENSE AGAINST ATTACK.

0 Replies

Still not reading your greedy selfish posts David...

1 Reply

@RexRed,

RexRed wrote:

Still not reading your greedy selfish posts David...

Yes, u r, Rex.
I know u r. U 'r not fooling me, but I still like u.

David

0 Replies

There Was Another School Shooting During Obama’s State Of The Union Address
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/01/29/3219701/sotu-school-shooting/

Republicans giving more and more guns to their kids so they can "overthrow" their school...

3 Replies

Guns And The Laws That Govern Them

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