Guns And The Laws That Govern Them

@oralloy,

Ah, the ole.. I didn't check any statistics so I'll just make them up ruse. Good one oralloy.

According to FBI statistics,

Quote:

In 2008, of all homicide incidents—
3.7% involved two victims
0.5% involved three victims
0.2% involved four victims
0.1% involved five or more victims

Quote:

In 2008, three-quarters (77.2%) of multiple victim homicides
involved guns while two-thirds (65.7%) of single victim
homicides involved guns

Multiple murders make up 4.5% of homicide incidents so would make up at least double that number in victims.

A 9% drop in murders is noticeable no matter what you want to argue.

Obviously pipe bombs must kill more people as we can tell from comparing the Boston bombing to the Aurora theater attack.
Boston bombing - 2 bombs that were rather sophisticated - 3 dead
Aurora theater attack with gun - 12 dead.

Those pipe bombs sure do kill more people. Why don't you tell us about all the knife attacks that kill 12 people while you are at it.

2 Replies

@parados,

Why do you apply the theater shooting as if this type of shooting is the most common? The same # of people, 12, were killed in Chicago during Memorial Day weekend and over 40 were injured. Where is your concern for the people who are in danger on a daily basis, not those who might be in danger due to someone with a few screws loose?

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Why do you propose a strawman argument?

1 Reply

@parados,

How is it a strawman? Your efforts on concentrated on an event that is the least likely to happen and you ignore a much larger issue. The strawman with gun violence is your side of the fence using Aurora and Sandy Hook to push your anti-gun agenda. Chicago is proof enough that gun laws do not stop violence.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Quote:

How is it a strawman?

I provide statistics showing multiple homicides occur in about 5% of homicide incidents. You respond with, "Why do you apply the theater shooting (multiple homicides) as if this type of shooting is the most common."

Geez. Why would I possibly think your argument was a straw man?

1 Reply

@parados,

Your stats do not show support for events like Aurora which as I said is the least common type of shooting. Do you think a majority of shootings in Chicago only involve one person? 40 people killed over the weekend! Should we talk about Baltimore and there shooting sprees or would you rather focus all of your energy on the least common type of shooting?

Your entire premise is a strawman.

1 Reply

I am becoming a big fan of ammo coding. Sure the gun nuts could swap ammo wholesale making it impossible to trace a particular bullet, but the state could tear apart the lives of those who purchased the bullet originally and thus make this a risky and potentually very costly operation. We also could make it illegal for people whos ammo keeps showing up at crime scenes to own a gun.

0 Replies

@Baldimo,

You don't know what a strawman is. You clearly misrepresented my argument which makes your statement a straw man. What have I misrepresented in your argument since you claim I am using a strawman argument.

0 Replies

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/1896955_383587941847010_7418374169151404182_n.jpg?oh=caea625f784b5c399e8bc53e738507f7&oe=55FF52ED

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11391486_1424292961228403_465107612972658895_n.jpg?oh=8ddedf27cd3eb650a4eb2fcfb0c13a65&oe=55F08A40

Some straw anyone? hehe

1 Reply

@RexRed,

What's so stupid? You don't think there are a lot of vets out there who feel the same way? Why do you think the AR-15 is one of the most popular rifles out there? The US military has been using them for over 40 years.

The head of DHS even put out a memo some years ago stating that the govt needs to keep their eyes on vets. How soon you forget.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Quote:

The head of DHS even put out a memo some years ago stating that the govt needs to keep their eyes on vets. How soon you forget.

How quickly you swallow the RW twaddle.

The ACTUAL DHS report can be found here -
http://fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf
It doesn't say the DHS needs to keep their eyes on vets. It does say that disgruntled vets may be recruited by RW extremist groups just as happened in the 1990s. (Timothy McVeigh was a disgruntled vet that hung out with RW extremist groups.)

Next you will be believing Obama is having the military invade Texas because they declared them as hostile during the Jade Helm exercises.

1 Reply

@parados,

Here are some of the actual lines from the report. Obama had been in office for 3 months when this came out and so far there have been virtually no such incidents. In fact we have had more acts of violence from Muslims since 2009 then we have from RW extremists.

Quote:

The possible passage of new restrictions on firearms and the return of
military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks.

Quote:

Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are
attractive to rightwing extremists. DHS/I&A is concerned that rightwing
extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to
boost their violent capabilities.

These lovely gems were in the beginning of the section under "Key Findings" and not under the section of "Disgruntled Vets". In fact there is not mention of disgruntled vets in the key findings section of the doc.

The Obama admin was ready to attack vets and their service and he hadn't even been in office for half a year yet. His new DHS leader couldn't wait to malign vets and their service.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

I see nothing in those passages about the government "keeping an eye on vets".

Those statements are very similar to "young muslims are attractive to ISIS and DHS is concerned ISIS will attempt to recruit and radicalize young muslims." I doubt you would have an issue with that statement. It is a statement of fact. Not a statement of the government is keeping an eye on them.

1 Reply

@parados,

They put out the memo, that was enough. Our first black President becomes president and the first warning they put out is against our vets? None of you guys have any respect for the military.

How many people have been caught doing what the memo warned us about? How many people have been stopped here in the US or in other countries that were going to fight for ISIS or to become ISIS brides? 3 young ladies from here in CO were caught in Geremy. Tell me again how many RW groups have been busted or investigated?

2 Replies

@parados,

parados wrote:

So many AUTOs that I didn't realize were AUTOs like strip mine dump trucks and dune buggies.

But now you do realize it??

parados wrote:

Ah, the ole.. I didn't check any statistics so I'll just make them up ruse. Good one oralloy.

True that I did not go refresh myself on the statistics, but I don't recall making anything up.

parados wrote:

According to FBI statistics,

Quote:
In 2008, of all homicide incidents—
3.7% involved two victims
0.5% involved three victims
0.2% involved four victims
0.1% involved five or more victims

So like I said, very few killings involve a large number of victims.

parados wrote:

Quote:
In 2008, three-quarters (77.2%) of multiple victim homicides
involved guns while two-thirds (65.7%) of single victim
homicides involved guns

Multiple murders make up 4.5% of homicide incidents so would make up at least double that number in victims.

A 9% drop in murders is noticeable no matter what you want to argue.

I do not agree that removing guns would cause a 9% drop in murders.

I suspect something more in line with a 1% drop.

0 Replies

@Baldimo,

Baldimo wrote:

They put out the memo, that was enough. Our first black President becomes president and the first warning they put out is against our vets? None of you guys have any respect for the military.

How many people have been caught doing what the memo warned us about? How many people have been stopped here in the US or in other countries that were going to fight for ISIS or to become ISIS brides? 3 young ladies from here in CO were caught in Geremy. Tell me again how many RW groups have been busted or investigated?

The Obama Administration also has blocked disabled vets from purchasing guns solely because of their disability. They also wanted to expand this to cover disabled non-vets as well.

I have no idea whether they still do this, or whether they expanded this to all disabled people, but this was the reason why universal background checks became unacceptable and the NRA refused to allow Congress to pass them back in 2013.

3 Replies

@oralloy,

Would you be so kind as to give your opinion and reasoning of the idea of ammo controls, with trace numbers of each box engraved on the bullet? Maybe increased hurdles to be allowed to buy ammo under this system...

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Baldimo wrote:
They put out the memo, that was enough. Our first black President becomes president and the first warning they put out is against our vets? None of you guys have any respect for the military.

How many people have been caught doing what the memo warned us about? How many people have been stopped here in the US or in other countries that were going to fight for ISIS or to become ISIS brides? 3 young ladies from here in CO were caught in Geremy. Tell me again how many RW groups have been busted or investigated?

The Obama Administration also has blocked disabled vets from purchasing guns solely because of their disability. They also wanted to expand this to cover disabled non-vets as well.

I have no idea whether they still do this, or whether they expanded this to all disabled people, but this was the reason why universal background checks became unacceptable and the NRA refused to allow Congress to pass them back in 2013.

How would such a law blocking the disabled from enjoying their constitutional right avoid accusations of discrimination????

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Would you be so kind as to give your opinion and reasoning of the idea of ammo controls, with trace numbers of each box engraved on the bullet? Maybe increased hurdles to be allowed to buy ammo under this system...

I would want the police (including the feds) to be required to use the same stamped ammo that the civilians have to use.

"Hurdles" sounds problematic. If there is no good reason to prevent someone from buying ammo, they have the right to buy it.

1 Reply

@FBM,

FBM wrote:

How would such a law blocking the disabled from enjoying their constitutional right avoid accusations of discrimination????

In this case it is an executive order as opposed to a law. But I don't think it would be able to avoid such accusations.

1 Reply

Guns And The Laws That Govern Them

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