Why Judaism rejected homosexuality

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn,

You are the one defending the absurd claim that Judaism/Christianity is superior to other religions (which is the premise of the article that started this thread so I don't blame you for all of it, but you are defending this absurd claim).

My point was that Bronze Age Judaism is not inherently superior to any other Bronze Age religion in any way that you have been able to identify. There is nothing unique or special about it. It has some tenants that we agree with today, and others that were pretty backwards by today's standards (which is not surprising considering that it was developed in the Bronze age).

You are also wanting to single out the bad religion of the hour (which happens to be Islam) for acts of barbarism. You claimed that Christians and Hindu's didn't do barbaric acts. I simply provided contrary examples. It wasn't that long ago that Judaism was the bad religion of the hour (from a Christian perspective) which is rather ironic.

I see no reason to believe there is anything inherently superior about the Jewish religion or the Christian religion. And I see no reason to believe that there is anything worse then other religions either.

I have nothing against Judaism or Christianity specifically, they are just religions in a world full of religions. I just hate the claims that they are superior.

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It's interesting, at least in my opinion, that the much quoted and often referred to essay by French Chief Rabbi Gilles Bernheim ... has been copied by him from an essay written by a Catholic priest.

One of the reasons; Bernheim resigned today (He admitted to plagiarising several authors and lying about an academic status.)

His essay in original French.
English translation

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Finn,

I have nothing against Judaism or Christianity specifically, they are just religions in a world full of religions. I just hate the claims that they are superior.

In my opinion, every religion has adherents that believe that their specific religion is superior to other religions. So, if there are people that believe that Judaism or Christianity are superior to other religions, that is just the same situation for other religions.

And, I wonder if it is truly "the claims" that Judaism or Christianity are "superior" that one "hates," or the "feeling" of superiority that one might believe those adherents may have? Plus, what if it can be proven that Judaism or Christianity are not "superior" religions, but "average" religions. Is it then possible that some other religion(s) are "below average" (aka, inferior)? In effect, one does not have to be/feel superior. One can be average, and still be better than below average (aka, inferior).

Is it morally wrong (aka, hubris) to know if one's religion is "average" and another religion might be "below average" (aka, inferior)?

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@Foofie,

Are all of those quotation marks really necessary Foofie?

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Are all of those quotation marks really necessary Foofie?

Yes. I put them there for the "average" poster.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

And, from that social custom grew the sleight of hand of sewing some chicken gut together into a small pouch with some chicken blood. Voila, a virgin on the wedding night.

Silly people. It would never stand up with DNA testing.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

not one who attempts to educate our children about history or literature.

You have a definite problem with people teaching our children actual history, Finn and you been largely quiet about teaching those same children a lot of nonsense about English.

But it's always good for you to use as a bit of propaganda.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

Plus, the referencing to what people might have done a few millenia ago, could have started by those that wanted to claim that their current faith has the moral high ground today?

That's a frequent ploy of the US, isn't it, Foofie? Remember those super dangerous Nicaraguans that Reagan warned about - they were only, what was it, a half a day's drive from NM - sure to invade.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

My point was that Bronze Age Judaism is not inherently superior to any other Bronze Age religion in any way that you have been able to identify.

Bullshit. Israelites were the first to abandon the idea of sacrificing children to dwarf stars and/or idols intended to represent dwarf stars. Everybody else around there at the time was sacrificing children to Baal, Shamesh, and Moloch, Israelites weren't.

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@gungasnake,

The God of Bronze Age Judaism ordered the murder of children at Jericho.

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@maxdancona,

Indeed: (Josh. 6). God gave Jericho into the hands of the Israelites. The city was “accursed” (Hebrew: herem, “devoted” to Jehovah), and accordingly (Josh. 6:17; compare Lev. 27:28,29; Deut. 13:16) all the inhabitants and all the spoil of the city were to be destroyed, “only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron” were reserved and “put into the treasury of the house of Jehovah” (Josh. 6:24; compare Num. 31:22,23, 50-54).
That 'happened' ca. 1400 B.C. . The Bronze Age in the Near East lasted from 3600 until 1200 B.C. .

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@maxdancona,

Progress is usually one step at a time. We still have wars NOW, and any children who died at Jericho did not die any worse than the tens of thousands of children who died in the fire bomb raid against Tokyo in March of 1945.

Sacrificing children to Baal and/or Moloch on the other hand died out many centuries ago and it died out amongst Israelites FIRST.

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@gungasnake,

Why is sacrificing children to Jehovah any better than sacrificing children to Baal?

In the Hebrew Bible, God demanded that children be "devoted to him" by being killed in His name. They didn't change the barbaric behavior, they just changed the name of the deity.

I fail to see why the name of the particular God commanding that children be killed makes any difference.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

In the Hebrew Bible, God demanded that children be "devoted to him" by being killed in His name.

Do you have any sort of a source for that which doesn't require reading Hebrew?

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@maxdancona,

One other thing.....

You've noticed me referring to the idea of sacrificing children to dwarf stars.....

That one requires several gulps of water for many people to swallow. ALL ancient religions were astral in nature, at least originally. You can convince yourself that "El" meant Saturn by doing google searches on "el Saturn Babylon", and you need the word "Babylon" in that search to eliminate the GM Saturn dealerships. "Yahweh" of course is the same basic word as "Jove", which is another appellation for Jupiter.

At some point, Israelites figured it out and after that point, by "God", they meant the Creator of our living world, who is universal, but they went on using the old names.

Goyim on the other hand (our ancestors) went on with the idiotic **** for many centuries, the worst case being Lithuanians, who apparently were still worshiping Odin 800 years ago.

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@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Do you have any sort of a source for that which doesn't require reading Hebrew?

I'd thought they (mainly) wrote in Hebrew. I'm not sure, if Greek translations would be okay?

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@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Goyim on the other hand (our ancestors) went on with the idiotic **** for many centuries, the worst case being Lithuanians, who apparently were still worshiping Odin 800 years ago.

You've written that already a couple of times, but Odin was more or less unknown to Lithuanians .... since they didn't follow any Germanic traditions. (Dr Yvonne Luven published already in 2001 her researches about the history of religions in the Baltic States, worth reading, if you are really interested. [Not referring to gunga by that!])

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@Walter Hinteler,

I've just looked it up again: the Baltic region was Christianised by 1180 ... my hometown's founder was a bishop at that time up there. (Actually, he was and is the only Roman Catholic bishop who got ordinated as bishop by three of his sons.)

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@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Goyim on the other hand (our ancestors) went on with the idiotic **** for many centuries, the worst case being Lithuanians, who apparently were still worshiping Odin 800 years ago.

I give you an A+ for honesty.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I've just looked it up again: the Baltic region was Christianised by 1180 ... my hometown's founder was a bishop at that time up there. (Actually, he was and is the only Roman Catholic bishop who got ordinated as bishop by three of his sons.)

Will historians have a word, and date, for the "retreat" of Christianity from much of Europe? Getting one's baby baptized may not really count for still being Christian, since the theology is not often believed.

1 Reply

Why Judaism rejected homosexuality

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