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Why Judaism rejected homosexuality

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 10:44 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:
Lithuanians by way of contrast were still worshiping Odin 800 years ago.
Really? I mean, there isn't much known about the Baltic (and Lithuanian) pre-Christian religion. But most certainly it wasn't Germanic.

The Chronicon livonicum vetus (by Henry of Latvia) gives some hints. As does the Livonian Rhymed Chronicle. (Both written about 800 years ago and referring to earlier periods.) Good sources about the religion there are the reports of Peter of Duisburg and Wigand of Marburg as well (both written about 700 years ago) ...
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 10:52 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

For the religiously obsessed Christians of the 18th and 19th centuries, the idea of the Sumerians, succeeded by the Akkadians, and both being at least close cousins to the Jews, as the founders of our civilization was paramount. They were willing to fudge the evidence and ignore any contradictions to continue to peddle a false importance for the Jews in particular and the middle east in general as the fount of all civilization. As i've already pointed out, it was necessary for them to ignore China entirely to forward that thesis.


The importance was more theological, as in the opinion of some televangelists, as I understand them, that explain that "true" Chrisitanity does not replace the Covenant of God with the Israelites, with a Covenant with Christians. The thinking being that "other" denominations do that. Either way, Jews make up a theological segue for Christianity, and more importantly, in my opinion, today (and in the 18th and 19th century) allows Christianity to make a lemonade out of a lemon, so to speak, since Jews are still around, and did not disappear like those earlier peoples. In other words, in my opinion, if one can't beat 'em, join 'em so to speak, but put them in their subordinate place.

0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 11:04 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

Russian Jews are mainly the ten missing tribes which the Assyrians carried off to never-never land beyond the Caucasus.

The popular thinking is that the Khazar kingdom originally amounted to Turkish tribes which had adopted Judaism in the early middle ages... That's wrong; the entire culture of the Khazar kingdom was that of ancient Israel and not that of Hellenistic Jews who somebody might have learned Judaism from circa 500 or 600 AD:

http://www.varchive.org/ce/baalbek/khazars.htm


The version I got from reading was that the Khazars were solicited to become monotheistic, whether Moslem or Christian, so as to make them pay taxes to the Caliph or the Vatican. They decided to adopt Judaism to avoid the taxes. At least the military class. So, when Ghengis Khan pushed them into Russia, they met existing Jewish villages, and mixed with them. Meaning Jews of Russian descent are just a mix. Perhaps, that explains why many Jews from Czarist Russia have light eyes. It might not all be from the Cossacks. Plus, DNA analysis does show the Y chromosome mostly coming from the mideast, I thought. The X chromosome seems to come from local woman, which might just mean that early groups of male Jews set up "trading posts" in the hinterland of Russia, and the young males married the local girls. Jews have no real pedigree today, since they pick up DNA as the saga unfolds, so to speak.

But, there are many versions about Jews and their lineage, since so many non-Jews seem to have a need to have the definitive explanation regarding Jews about this or that. Considering they are a drop in the bucket of humanity, they really get a lot of press.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 11:08 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

...I agree that their has long been tunnel vision about the importance of that region and Europe as well, but this probably has more to do with simple chauvinism and practical access, then any religious bias.


It might just be the natural outcome from the fact that the southern shores of the Mediterranean were doing math, while those on the northern shores had, at best, Roman Numerals and fingers to count?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 11:12 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

But, there are many versions about Jews and their lineage, since so many non-Jews seem to have a need to have the definitive explanation regarding Jews about this or that. Considering they are a drop in the bucket of humanity, they really get a lot of press.
Indeed. This seems to be the latest 'research' by an Israeli born Jew: Eran Elhaik: The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses. In: Genome Biol. Evol. 5, 2013, S. 75–76 doi:10.1093/gbe/evs129

More here: The Jewish people's ultimate treasure hunt
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 11:19 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foofie wrote:

But, there are many versions about Jews and their lineage, since so many non-Jews seem to have a need to have the definitive explanation regarding Jews about this or that. Considering they are a drop in the bucket of humanity, they really get a lot of press.
Indeed. This seems to be the latest 'research' by an Israeli born Jew: Eran Elhaik: The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses. In: Genome Biol. Evol. 5, 2013, S. 75–76 doi:10.1093/gbe/evs129

More here: The Jewish people's ultimate treasure hunt


This might really be cognitive dissonance for anti-Semites.
0 Replies
 
gene32
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 02:33 am
@gungasnake,
I guess because death among new born babies was really high and 2 men alone or 2 women alone cannot make babies.

Interesting article Wink
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 03:30 pm
@maxdancona,
Without knowing it, you've helped me make my point. Care to recant?

I don't think that the Babylonians et al should not be credited with their contributions to civilization, just that civilization was simultaneously and independently flourishing in other parts of the world without their influence, and so the label Cradle of Civilization is inaccurate.

In any case, I referenced these peoples because Set asserted that historians and archeologists in past centuries focused/fixated on the region because of a Judeo/Christian bias.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 03:32 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Why? I don't mind helping you make your point. I am a helpful sort of guy.

(BTW I love your signature, and I am sure glad that didn't happen).
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 03:35 pm
@Setanta,
After quite a lot of blather you actually answered my question in your last paragraph. You do believe it was because of these peoples proximity to Jerusalem.

Thanks
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 03:43 pm
@maxdancona,
No, all ancient laws, whether Hebraic or Chinese cannot be applied to modern society, but some can.

I doubt you have too much of a problem with "Thou Shalt not Kill."

Interestingly enough there is only one current culture that assiduously follows ancient and barbaric law and it isn't Christian, Jewish, Or Hindu.

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 03:50 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
The reason that Judaic culture can be applied to modern society is that Europe was Christianized (at times in a rather brutal way) starting in the 4th century. The Jewish scriptures then became European (and were thus passed onto us).

This doesn't say anything about the value of one ancient culture over another. It just says that the Powerful classes in fourth century Europe found the value of one mythological system useful in justifying their power and used their power to impose it on their subjects.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 03:55 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Interestingly enough there is only one current culture that assiduously follows ancient and barbaric law and it isn't Christian, Jewish, Or Hindu.


This is nonsense.

The Ugandan culture is a Christian culture that uses the Judeo-Christian Bible to justify some pretty barbaric behavior. Currently they use the Christian Bible to justify burning children as witches

The modern Turkish culture is largely muslim and informed by the Koran. It is civilized and peaceful.

India (a Hindu culture) is having some problems with rather uncivilized behavior that has been in the news recently.


Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 04:00 pm
@maxdancona,
Attempting to respond to an essentially incoherent posting:

Because there was no inherent value in that system?

Which of the Ten Commandments do you find problematic?

In any case where in all the world are all of these barbaric Biblical laws you must have on a crib sheet, practiced?

Where do they stone women who commit adultery? Where do they bring walls down on homosexuals? Where are rape victims brutally punished as the criminal?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 04:01 pm
@maxdancona,
Well there you go...a brilliant retort that relies upon Uganda
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 04:24 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I didn't mention Jerusalem--but then, you've never shown any particular loyalty to the the truth.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 05:29 pm
@Setanta,
Oh please!

Even I can't fault you for a clod-like inability to appreciate metaphors.

But if you insist...
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 05:33 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Ìt's not a metaphor, it's an attempt to distort what i was saying. Your question was why, if people such as the Sumerians, the Babylonians (not actually a people, as i pointed out, although i know that they are sometimes treated as though they were a discrete people) and others, rather than just the Jews, were responsible for the civilization that arose there--why would people be influenced to give undue weight to the middle east in history, archaeology, etc. You asked it, of course, in your typical tortured manner. So i answered, in detail, pointing out significantly, that those people did not necessarily "discover" or "invent" the civilization attributed to them.

Proximity to Jerusalem had nothing to do with it. Nothing i said suggested that it did. You were, as always, distorting what i (or anyone else for that matter) had written.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 05:38 pm
@Setanta,
Yes Setanta you must be right.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 05:46 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
When disputing you, i almost always am.
0 Replies
 
 

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