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If Adam and Eve were created perfect, how could they sin?

 
 
AugustineBrother
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2016 07:00 am
@neologist,
You contradict yourself, twice

1) It is a perfect thing that they be in the image of God, correct? Is not God free?
So Free will is the perfection of a human and sin the misuse. This is too obvious.

2) You actually see people sin, no? So you shouldn't act surprised ! Do you take that as a person's natural state. how odd. No kidding. When I see an Isis member shoot a baby I think, Yes, the soul is corrupted. THAT is not the way man was created.
0 Replies
 
daverod
 
  0  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2018 11:56 pm
@neologist,
They didn't 'sin'. They ate of the tree which God told them that in the day they ate of it, which could be 1000 years with The LORD (2 Peter 3:8), they would surely die.

2 Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

They did, however, transgress, or go against what The LORD God told him.

Oh get this. Did God tell the 'woman' Eve, she could not eat, or did God tell the man, Adam, that 'he' was not to eat?


Genesis 2:15-18 "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."


Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"


So although they didn't really 'sin', God created the man to be the head of the woman and to keep her and help her as Christ does to and for His Church, which is His Body.

I'm thinking 'head' to mean, Provider/Benefactor/Keeper, etc..

So if the woman, Eve, did not transgress or 'sin' against The LORD God, what happened?


Genesis 3:2-3 "And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. "

If The LORD God did not tell the woman she could not eat, then from whom did she receive the instruction, 'God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it'...?

The LORD God,
God
The LORD
(J)esus.

They are all separate persons.

The LORD God is YHWH and elohim, hence 'YHWH=Elohim'
daverod
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2018 12:16 am
@daverod,
But if and since God cannot be seen by any, how is it that the woman was told or heard God tell her that she could not eat?

Before Adam had a help meet, Eve, he was told that he was to not eat of a certain tree. After Adam fell asleep and after the LORD God formed for him a help meet, nothing is said as to the reiteration of the warning to both of them. So did Adam tell Eve what was told to him by The LORD God? But since The LORD God told Adam that 'he' was to not eat, why did the woman receive, 'We are not to eat'? Where did she get the 'we' part of 'he'?

So, Adam is told to not eat. The LORD God forms for him a help meet, Eve. Later, the serpent asks Eve if 'she' is not to eat to which she replies 'we' are not to eat. And this causes 'Eve' to actually eat and she then goes and gives the fruit to her husband, Adam. And Adam also eats. Adam was told that in the day he eats of the fruit, he would surely die. Not as a threat but more of a natural physical response to consuming the fruit. And here is where they had their eyes opened and realized they were 'naked' and went and hid themselves.
daverod
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2018 12:33 am
@daverod,
So even if Eve did eat and if when she offered the fruit to Adam he did not eat, he would not have died. And maybe Eve would have been purged/healed of that which she consumed.

And so here is Earth in the year 2018.
0 Replies
 
Luxin
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Oct, 2018 02:48 pm
My interpretation of the cautionary tale of Adam and Eve follows. First, my concept of God. God thought of as a personal being prevents understanding. Nature and God are synonymous. God/Nature is His form (beings/matter) plus His Laws governing that form. No unseen being to blame; cause rests with impersonal, inhuman Laws regulating the physical and Divine (abstract) realms.

Though their age is not specified, the figurative 'first couple' are teenagers just past puberty who became fallen angels. Nature: imprudence and sin, you're out; prudence and virtue, you're in (the garden or paradise, figurating a happy life with love and all the greatest blessings). If you're out: spiritual death and a life of misery. All Nature's laws are impersonal, with no room for leniency because Nature is not a person. There are nine Spiritual Laws, the chief of which is the Great Law of Love from which 'hang all the law and the prophets'. Breaking the Great Law with lovelessness is the worst sin.

Nature figuratively 'sets' (simply has) a trap called 'loveless lust' to catch the unwary, uninformed and curious thrill seekers who dare to disregard the warnings of their elders or fall into temptation or both. The danger isn't pregnancy -- but eternal damnation for lust which, if accompanied by higher love for the inner beauty of one's beloved plus a capacity for a lifetime commitment to them -- is fine and not a problem, as lust is natural. However, Nature deems lust not sanctified by higher love etc. -- i.e. 'loveless lust' -- a deadly sin because of the loveless aspect, i.e. just using the sacred power of sex for pleasure, which is figurated by 'eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge' -- i.e. ordinary knowledge re physical world including mechanics of sex without respect for its Divine aspect relating to the tree of life (which every one of us represents as a spiritual being with the potential for Wisdom, Happiness etc.).

I was a porn fan for 50 years and was never damned to hell for it because I truly loved every 'fantasy girlfriend'. Love sanctifies ALL things it pertains to. I had to quit that when I saw an enormous black abyss waiting to swallow me up.

One's Conscience monitors all nine chakras or centres of consciousness spiritual and mental. If it sees the 4th chakra (learning if 'set'; lust if 'not set') has 'no charge' (zero), meaning possible sin, it checks the 9th or love chakra to see if it is 'set' (one) meaning we're loving our partner in the higher sense, for their inner beauty, not just their looks/body). If the love chakra is 'set', our lust is not a sin and we don't take The Fall to become a permanent resident of hell on earth. If lovelessness is indicated (the 9th chakra is 'zero'), we damn ourselves. All through our Conscience! Takes 'my Conscience is my judge' to a new level.

A 'logical inclusive or' operation is done:
4th chakra = 0 OR 9th chakra = 1 equals 1 (no sin)
4th chakra = 0 OR 9th chakra = 0 equals 0 (sin)

Clear as mud? Starting with doubt, prove or disprove all things. We are the only Divine beings with dominion over all -- to us, mysteries are disgraceful.

Truth and Love, Luxin
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  4  
Reply Thu 18 Oct, 2018 04:07 pm
@neologist,
quote="neologist"]If Adam and Eve were created perfect, how could they sin?[/quote]
There seems to be an unstated assumption in your question: that sinning is a sign of imperfection. I disagree. People who sin are people who think for themselves rather than slavishly obey. People who sin have the courage of civil disobeidence against a tyrant worse than anything they came up with in North Korea. I am militantly pro-sin. Sin doesn't contradict perfection in the least!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Oct, 2018 04:24 pm
@Thomas,
Too many follow the edicts of religious' teachings that are often times contradictory not only within the same religion but between religions. I find it very confusing, because of their inconsistencies.
0 Replies
 
 

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