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If Adam and Eve were created perfect, how could they sin?

Forums: Religion, Bible, Dueling Believers, Creationism, Adam And Eve
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izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 09:27 am
@neologist,
You fundamentalist types always act the same way, you shrug off being ridiculed by atheists as part of testing your faith, yet the minute someone points out an alternative explanation that shows you've been barking up the wrong tree all your life, you react in exactly the same way.

One major difference between the Gnostic interpretation and your fundamentalist one, is that Gnostics accept it's a myth, you think it really happened.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 10:20 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

The point I was making, Frank, is that there is no additional punishment for not serving God than what we already bear. No baking, no boiling, no frying, no broiling. Hitler died, Mother Teresa died. You and I ain't dead, yet.

All the same.

What punishment Frank? What punishment have I to fear?


You are absolutely positive there is a GOD....you are absolutely positive the GOD is the one involved in the story of Adam and Eve...and you are absolutely positive there is no additional punishment for making a mistake????????????????

And this KNOWLEDGE is based on what?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 10:22 am
@neologist,
By the way...is this your sly way of saying: I BELIEVE there is a Heaven, but I BELIEVE there is no Hell?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 01:00 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
By the way...is this your sly way of saying: I BELIEVE there is a Heaven, but I BELIEVE there is no Hell?
Your words, Frank, not mine.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 01:04 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
You fundamentalist types always act the same way, you shrug off being ridiculed by atheists as part of testing your faith, yet the minute someone points out an alternative explanation that shows you've been barking up the wrong tree all your life, you react in exactly the same way.

One major difference between the Gnostic interpretation and your fundamentalist one, is that Gnostics accept it's a myth, you think it really happened.
I have more in common with the beliefs of atheists and agnostics than you might think. We all think the myth is just BS.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 01:40 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
By the way...is this your sly way of saying: I BELIEVE there is a Heaven, but I BELIEVE there is no Hell?
Your words, Frank, not mine.


Yeah, because you seem to be dodging the issue.

You seem very sure your god is not going to have further punishment for people who make mistakes.

Why are you so sure? Adam and Eve made a mistake. They did not know right from wrong...and mistakenly disobeyed. They were punished severely...even if you will not acknowledge it because of your fear of the god.

So tell me...is there a Heaven? Is there reward? And if there is...is the possible denial of that reward the thing you fear?

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 02:20 pm
@neologist,
Yes. Once got created humans with sex organs, he created the "sin."

The urge for sex in all animal forms is called "natural." God didn't seem to consider that very important biological necessity.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 02:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Yes. Once got created humans with sex organs, he created the "sin."

The urge for sex in all animal forms is called "natural." God didn't seem to consider that very important biological necessity.
What makes you think sex is a sin?

Just askin'
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 02:26 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
neologist wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
By the way...is this your sly way of saying: I BELIEVE there is a Heaven, but I BELIEVE there is no Hell?
Your words, Frank, not mine.


Yeah, because you seem to be dodging the issue.

You seem very sure your god is not going to have further punishment for people who make mistakes.

Why are you so sure? Adam and Eve made a mistake. They did not know right from wrong...and mistakenly disobeyed. They were punished severely...even if you will not acknowledge it because of your fear of the god.

So tell me...is there a Heaven? Is there reward? And if there is...is the possible denial of that reward the thing you fear?


0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 02:31 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
. . . So tell me...is there a Heaven? Is there reward? And if there is...is the possible denial of that reward the thing you fear?
I thought you knew the bible well. Did you not notice the soul is mortal?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 02:31 pm
@neologist,
It wasn't about picking the apple (or any other fruit) and eating it. Mr. Green
If that's a sin, you have no logic or common sense. No fruit provides the knowledge of good and evil; it's a fruit that are eaten by many animals.

If that's a sin, what makes god believe killing family members because they did not "live up to his expectations" is okay?

Man can translate what's in the bible hundreds of different ways. That it's the word of god is laughable at best. Drunk Drunk Drunk Drunk

Again: if god created sex organs, and expected the propagation of humans on this planet, humans must die. That's a condition dictated by the size of this planet. Not by eating an apple (or fruit). You know, it's called logistics.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 08:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Pretty convoluted answer to my question
Quote:
What makes you think sex is a sin?
Any particular reason?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 08:33 pm
@neologist,
I didn't answer the question, because I never said what you claim. Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 May, 2013 12:02 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
. . . So tell me...is there a Heaven? Is there reward? And if there is...is the possible denial of that reward the thing you fear?
I thought you knew the bible well. Did you not notice the soul is mortal?


So is that a "yes" or "no" to any of the questions...and if it is, which question?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 May, 2013 01:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I don't expect to go to heaven. Its possible I could live indefintely on earth. You could call that a reward. But I don't fear the loss of it as I was formerly quite resigned to that eventuality.

I don't fear death any more than I assume you might, Frank. I'll bet we are both like Woody Allen in not wanting to be there "when it happens".
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 May, 2013 01:52 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

I don't expect to go to heaven. Its possible I could live indefintely on earth. You could call that a reward. But I don't fear the loss of it as I was formerly quite resigned to that eventuality.

I don't fear death any more than I assume you might, Frank. I'll bet we are both like Woody Allen in not wanting to be there "when it happens".


Is any of that a "yes" or a "no" or an "I do not know" to any of my questions...and if "yes" or "no" or "I do not know"...which is it...and to which question does it apply?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 May, 2013 01:54 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Let me make this easy for you and limit to one question (I'll get to the others later):

So tell me...is there a Heaven?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 May, 2013 02:16 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Let me make this easy for you and limit to one question (I'll get to the others later):

So tell me...is there a Heaven?
Very Happy I always knew you were a man of few words at heart, Frank.

Yes, there is a heaven and I have no desire to go there.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 May, 2013 02:27 pm
@neologist,
You KNOW there is a Heaven?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 May, 2013 02:50 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
You KNOW there is a Heaven?
Well, Ibelieve there is a God, so yes.
 

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