Lola at the Coffee House

Why?

What makes you think he speaks for me?

He's been attempting to speak for you, and, while you might find that acceptable (you haven't commented about that), he in no way speaks for me, nor does he understand my feelings on the matter.

I don't particularly enjoy his antics, or his name-calling. He's trying to flatter himself, excuse his poor behavior, and dodge the fact he can't hold his own in a discussion.

I'm willing to tolerate him, but love him? Ya gotta be kidding.

These lyrics must have really stuck in your craw, FF.

May you grow up to be righteous
May you grow up to be true
May you always know the truth
And see the lights surrounding you
May you always be courageous

Or did you just brush them aside like you do the millions that the USA has slaughtered, the countless millions of lives the USA has destroyed?

Ok, the two to mention that are connected to small stories by me:
wait, maybe there are much more than two:

Aftermath, The Rolling Stones - eleven and something minutes, so good, so good

Crosby, Stills & Nash - a boyfriend's roomie was a friend of Crosby. I may or may not have met him. We were on a date and dropped by their apartment for me to meet his friends, and I, in my non hippie attire, my camelhair coatdress and small heels, was introduced to this group of guys..

The Doors - the only time I refused to take someone's blood, this back when I was a lab tech in a Beverly Hills lab for part of a year, was when Morrison and a lady came in for premaritals. I was afraid I'd go into some kind of shaking tharn.

Janis Joplin’s Greatest Hits - a work associate knew Janis well, long before the fame.

College Concert, The Kingston Trio - I bought this at one of their concerts, on a date with my first lover, so I'll never toss that one.

Close to Home, Jon Wilcox - he was a california history consultant on a job I did, coordinating a landuse project at a local musuem. Man knew his folk scene. I have several of his cds.

The Best of Laurindo Almeida
Spellbinder, Gabor Szabo
I heard/saw these guys (separately, of course) several times at different small venues

Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No. 1, Horowitz/Toscanini - back when I took music 1A at UCLA, and was crushing on the music t.a., this was one of the pieces I'd heard. I bought the album. Astounding to me. Plus, the concert was at a historic time in London, at least re the notes. I loved it, loved it.
I mentioned it at work - I was eighteen or nineteen, worked in a hospital - was asked to do med records research for a fellow who was trying to gain info on whether our particular xray minifilms did any good re ascertaining if patients had tb (no). I told him about the album, so proud of myself.
He said, "parlor music".

Well that's enough for now.

Execution is important. But I do include the content or the "message" or meaning of the words. I especially respond to the emotion and attitude as well. I can be much more tolerant of subjects like love than of what seems to me to be petty, juvenile intolerance. And in the case of this particular song, it'snot just the message or words, but also the cadence and something intangible in the song as a whole.

But as you so ably point out, Andrei, it's my opinion and my experience. I know that my opinion is based on many aspects of my life and what those aspects have come to represent or mean to me. I think it's good to keep in mind that not every person hears the same song or poem or performance in the same way. All of this has nothing to do, in my mind, with Pete Seeger or Dylan, as far as I know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Dylan_controversy


It seems Dylan had taken the Seeger performed Little Boxes song to heart.

I don't think he speaks for you, firefly. I'm not sure what made you think I did. In any case, we all speak for ourselves. And I didn't say that you loved him, I said that some of us do. I can see, however that since I referred to your sending spendi a beer on your tab, that you thought I was speaking for you. I apologize. I know you can speak for yourself.

spendi often does provoke people unnecessarily. As far as him speaking for me, in this case, I think he's understood what I said about the song and how it affects me with accuracy. I think spendi got the point of the song, that it's intended as political satire. And I think he understands that the lyrics are figurative rather than concrete. I will agree that he obscures this fact with unnecessarily provocative language.

But I'll be clear. I don't like it when anyone tries to one up another in a discussion that could have been carried out without it. It happens all the time on A2K and it diminishes the site in a way that I'm unhappy about. Still, I enjoy a rapid exchange of ideas. And if that means I have to tolerate name calling, then I'll do it.

Wassau doesn't like it either. And I do speak for him.

I think you're very much speaking for yourself there.

OK, good point Beth. It's kind of the other patrons of this cafe to put up with him, then..............or is it kind? I don't know.

The housing tracks have been done in concrete. The song represented many people's feelings, then and now.

I have read many many many beefs about expansive housing tracks gulping land, unwisely in many instances, sometimes nefariously as schemes. Interesting subject matter.


We designed at length for one of the ten biggest developers in the country - at least back then. They weren't ugly minded people, in that case, but a lot of practices then, by cities and developers, were complicitly unwise while dollar chasing.

I think it's a matter of respect to the hostess.

In a similar way, I try not to engage directly with another poster when we are both seem to be trying to assist a third poster. Respect for the thread host can prevent unpleasantness on occasion.

Good point osso. The song works on this other level and in this way, I can admire the skill of the song writer, Malvina Reynolds. Urban sprawl is a relevant subject, I think.


I know it does. Needless to say that my opinion of this song does not meet with agreement of most of my friends. Actually, it makes some of them quite angry. But I try to speak my mind, politely and with respect, whether it conforms to the opinion of my friends or not. Little Boxes, you know.

I have noticed this Beth. And I thank you for it.

I do believe you mean 'tracts,' osso. No offence intended.

It's true, I did. A mind bend.
I could pretend I didn't, tracks of our tears stuff.

When you asked spendius why he engages in name calling, he replied:
"Fun. I know ff enjoys it as much as I do. "

And, your response was:
"OK, I'll settle for that answer."

I did take that to mean that you accepted that spendius could speak for me, that he does know what I enjoy, and that I enjoy his name calling.

I'm not sure why you would choose to "settle for that answer" since it really skirts the question you asked, in addition to his unsubstantiated, and inaccurate, claim that I enjoy such nonsense. A grown man who engages in name calling simply for "fun" is engaging in rather juvenile antics that have little or nothing to do with the "rapid exchange of ideas" you say you enjoy.

And, particularly with regard to the "Little Boxes" discussion, I found spendius' comments, in general, not only rather devoid of ideas, the man admitted he hasn't listened to, or read, all the lyrics to the song--a song which has nothing to do with needs for "affordable housing" or any of the other irrelevancies he put forth, and a song which is definitely rooted in a cultural historical context he completely ignored.

Spendius' only interest in the topic appeared to stem from his associating Seeger with the song, and his need to trash Seeger, as a vendetta for some nebulous incident that happened between Seeger and Dylan almost 50 years ago. Not only was there no real exchange of ideas between the two of us, spendi wasn't even on the same wave length with me. I couldn't care less what went on between Seeger and Dylan almost half a century ago, but that's where spendius' head is still at, and an excuse to continue trashing Seeger seemed to be his main objective in those interchanges we had on that "Little Boxes" ditty.

I enjoy a rapid exchange of ideas also. I'm still waiting for that to happen with spendius.

And I'm not sure we should tolerate name calling, particularly when it is done gratuitously as someone's childish idea of "fun". Tolerating it can be taken as tacit acceptance of it, or as a license to keep it up.

As for that song, "Little Boxes," I think you miss some of the humor in it. And, when I've been at folk concerts where it has been performed, it does tend to provoke laughter--laughter at ourselves for living cookie-cutter lives, for living in cookie cutter houses, for trying to keep up with the neighbors, for always doing what is expected, for wanting to blend in, for never thinking outside the box. A lot has changed since 1962, when that song was written, particularly for women, in terms of expanding our horizons, but we should still realize how foolish we, as humans, can sometimes be, and how foolish we once were, if conformity goes too far.

But you never never never ignore important issues, do you, Firefly? Do you understand the meaning of 'hypocrisy'?

Richie Havens died today.


And, since we've been talking about Dylan, this was in Haven's obituary in the NY Times.

Probably hundreds died today at the hands of your government, Firefly, and you diddle and dither.

Good bye to Richie Havens. It's a sad day in this respect.

I can see how you might have made this assumption. My response to spendius was that I accepted his answer, which was a direct response to my question about why he does what he does. He said he does it for fun. He also said that he assumed that you thought it was fun too. But I didn't say anything about his assumption about your experience. I try not to get into the business of telling others how they should think or feel. If I'm going to comment or insist on something, I try to focus on behavior. And I do as little of that as I can.

I understand you that you don't think it's fun. I didn't think that you did. And now you've confirmed it. Hopefully, now you better understand what I meant.

Now, I'm going to bed. Tomorrow is another day with coffee and food. Good night all.