Lola at the Coffee House

@firefly,

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there was nothing subtle about the racial discrimination in their policies. The second Levittown community, built in Pennsylvania, continued these same discriminatory "whites only" policies.

Saint Firefly parades her hypocrisy.

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@Lola,

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Conformity for conformity's sake can be offensive. And yet, if there are those who are happy in that environment, who are we to say that it's wrong? Those little houses are not for me, that's for sure. But I don't feel comfortable making fun of those who find it comforting and secure.

I think the song is more a call for people to break free from mindless conformity than it is intended to make fun of these people. As I was trying to explain to spendius, I think the song has to be understood in its historical context and time period.

This same sort of anti-conformity theme resounded in other ways in the late 50's and very early 60's. Remember the movie, "Invasion of the Body Snatchers,"--the original, not the remake? That's what that one was about too--people were replaced by duplicates which were devoid of emotion or individuality. Prior to the explosion of social unrest and social change, that began in this country in the late 50's-early 60's, a good segment of this country's middle class was mired in a stifling conformity, and movies like that one, and others, addressed the issue in various ways.

When conformity stifles individuality, and diversity, and creativity, and human potential, and social progress, I don't think it's good, no matter how "comforting and secure" some people might find that.

Part of what makes for lively discussion in this cafe is the fact that we don't think alike, we have differing attitudes and opinions, we have different tastes, we come from varing backgrounds, and we express our individuality and our diversity in just about everything, including what we choose to eat--we aren't conforming to any one particular group norm, other than trying to relate to each other in a civil manner.

And speaking of eating....

Wassau, I'd like a large Greek salad please, with a little cooked chicken thrown into it.

http://xs-recipes.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/elliniki-kotosalata.jpg

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@firefly,

As for "ticky-tacky" construction, a house in Levittown, Pa., could be built, or assembled, in just 16 minutes.

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To speed up construction, Levitt & Sons perfected a 26-step rationalized building method that was essentially an assembly line type of home building. The house remained stationary, while the construction workers moved from house to house. Each worker had one task such as pouring slabs, framing, installing electric sockets or installing washing machines. This highly regimented process enabled Levitt's workers to produce a finished house every 16 minutes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levittown,_Pennsylvania

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@Lustig Andrei,

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You and I seem to have almost identical tastes in music, firefly. I did have a few of the Beatles albums, though, and during the folk craze I really, really dug Pete Seeger, the Weavers and Joan Baez. Dylan, ehhhh.

I also notice that osso has The Chieftains in her collection, and I had their albums too, along with those of The Clancy Brothers, and folk groups like the Kingston trio and The Limelighters. And, thanks to Harry Belafonte, whose records I almost wore out, I was introduced to Miriam Makeba.

I still love folk music.

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Wassau, I'd like a large Greek salad please, with a little cooked chicken thrown into it.

I prefer my chicken fully cooked. Shocked

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@firefly,

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the government provided incentives to make homeownership easier for these veterans, and builders, like Levitt, sought to capitalize on that.

The government provided the incentives for the purpose of causing the effect you disesteem. The GIs are only heroes when Media can use them.

An "anti-conformity anthem" seeks to produce conformity in its audience. And it has nothing to do with anti-conformity itself.

The whole point the song makes is a banal one.

And, once again, no alternative is offered. We sometimes call such developments "starter homes".

What's Levittown like now?

You're a snob, girl. Bigtime.

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@spendius,

It was Seeger trying to deny his bourgeois lifestyle so that he could continue pandering to the superior lefty chattering classes with seeming dignity.

Bob blasted them out of the water. And it nearly killed him.

"He'll teach you how to pick and choose, and how to throw the blade".

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@spendius,

Seeger was and is more down to earth and legitimate than that plagiarist Dylan could ever even hope to be. If it hadn't been for the inroads made by people such as Seeger, Dylan would have remained dismal lackluster Bobby-Al Zimmerman.

Mind you, Dylan has finally turned a corner in his most recent work; but, that can only take him a short distance. Too bad he didn't discover and appreciate his inner being and talent earlier.

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@spendius,

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The whole point the song makes is a banal one.

And, once again, no alternative is offered. We sometimes call such developments "starter homes".

You want a satirical song to offer housing alternatives? Laughing

You get funnier and funnier--inadvertantly perhaps--and you also become more banal with each response on this topic.

Actually, dear friends of mine lived in one of those little houses in the late 50's, and it was their "starter home" that they moved into when they were first married. It was cute, and just large enough to accommodate them and their first child. And, like many other young married couples, as soon as their financial situation improved, and their family started to grow, they moved on to a larger home.

Today, many of those tiny boxes have been so drastically altered and renovated and expanded, they are barely recognizable any more. The blanket conformity has been replaced with a good deal of individuality.

But, the song isn't about housing, spendius. Laughing

The uniform cookie-cutter housing was only a symbol. Stop being so banal.

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@Sturgis,

Anybody got a whoopee cushion I could borrow.

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@Sturgis,

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Seeger was and is more down to earth and legitimate than that plagiarist Dylan could ever even hope to be.

He also sings a lot better than Dylan ever could.

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@firefly,

You really do have your sneering technique well rehearsed don't you ff?

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But, the song isn't about housing, spendius.

You don't expect me to listen to the other verses after hearing the first one do you?

I hope the "dear" in "dear friends" has more beef than the "good deal" in "a good deal of individuality".

My use of the phrase "starter homes" was a short-hand version of what you feel the need to expand upon.

Whatever the recriminations about the housing bubble it did get houses built.

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@spendius,

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You don't expect me to listen to the other verses after hearing the first one do you?

No wonder your comments sound like they spring from ignorance--they do. Thanks for confirming that point.

When you actually come up with something interesting to say, I might return to listen. Right now, you're starting to put me to sleep.

Wassau, a cup of coffee and some apple cake, please.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/files/u17499/ITJB-AppleCake_11122011_01_Web.jpg

I'll have it over there, by the window, where I'll be closer to some fresh air.

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On housing tracts, I've known a few. (I could sing that as a song..)

Some I remember as quite wonderful were in west Los Angeles. They were well built. The owners were not constrained in the way some tracts are now by associations that won't allow you to put a terra cotta pot in your front garden (that one really surprised me), and highly limit changes you could make to the home over time. So, the housing tracts I really liked did have the houses change as years went by, the modifications by the owners adding charm or at least personality and color to what were originally boxes with a choice of a few plans in a few colors.

I now live in a tract of "townhouse" duplexes. There are rules you see when you buy the unit, that people tend to put away, lose the memory of, and then do their own thing. You can still tell it's a tract, especially since the developer did his level worst at proper construction, with a lot of lawsuits being filed in the years before I or my neighbors bought here, which each of us found out about sometime later, too late. A tract of housing lemons, then. But, they're lemons with some individuality, and in many ways it's a neat area to live in. I like the people. Transportation sucks, but that's another whole bag of beans.

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@firefly,

Don't do that ff. It'll attract the flies in.

Washup--I'll have the smoked Coho salmon with Vidalia onions and Belgian endives and a bottle of the 1961 estate-bottled Bordeaux.

And take the Airwick over to the window seat.

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Meantime, Wassau, I'll have a couple of the oatmeal and almond pancakes (man, those are good) warmed, with melted butter and honey on top..
and more coffee.

I suppose there's no blank New York Times sunday puzzle, is there. My ballpoint pen is ready to work on it.

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@firefly,

Whenever spendi begins parsing whole thoughts word by word, thats a sure sign youve got him flumoxed . He cant handle the substance so he starts delving into what the meaning of "is" is.
Hes quite consistent in that trait.
Ill have a hunk of that cake if you dont mind, and my afternoon lapsang souchong.

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@farmerman,

I just can't understand how people think they have got anywhere by rasping out assertions.

Here I am "parsing whole thoughts," ( whatever they are), "word for word", which is exactly what ff did with "starter homes", and my doing so, which is a surprise to me, is a sign, only a sign mind you, that I've been got flummoxed by ff who is calling into question our beautiful and intelligent proprietoress's correct appraisal of that drivel known as Little Boxes.

Our idiocy, the proprietoress's and mine, is due to our being unable to handle the substance which causes me at least to ask for guidance on how I can be shown how to handle it by someone whose post is striking by the absence of the slightest speck of substance from start to finish.

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Just for the record (as if anyone cared), I'm totally with firefly in this 'little boxes' controversy.

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@spendius,

h you, such idiocy is a habit associated with the many times you get cornered by someone. FF has your goods and your trying the spendi squirm. Best thing is to drop it, get a beer and move on.

You missed the point and now your merely trying to make everyone believe that you didnt. Its ok, noone is using you as an encyclopedia, your part of the gang.

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Lola at the Coffee House

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