1
   

Help me

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2004 08:16 pm
Sorry Fallen Angel, to be posting here and not even address your question.

On one thing the guy is right, I think - especially if you've thus far had a life of homeschooling with few social contacts, its better to go out into real life and mingle & explore there than to surf the web for contacts that feel like real - even if the latter is much easier (and even if, of course, even the latter can still yield the odd real-life friendship, as many here will testify).

But on all the other counts, based on what you've told us here, I'm with the rest - this guy doesnt exactly make a good impression. Suspicious and distrustful is bad. Trying to coerce you, rather than merely encourage / support you, into doing what he thinks is right is worse. Thats the kind of thing that would trigger some negative associations about 30-year old guys who go for 20-year old girls with little real life experience.

Keep us informed and remember to always keep your own interests at heart, the way you see them.
0 Replies
 
caprice
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2004 09:38 pm
Oy! I wasn't going to post because you seemed to be getting good advice from everyone else. But I get the impression you aren't really "hearing" the advice!

Where to begin. I guess the first thing I would STRONGLY suggest is, do not marry this man!!!!!!!!!! There are so many reasons not to and so many reasons why I can see this relationship heading towards a crash and burn.

By your own admission, you are "very inexperienced at relationships" and "this is the first and only one" you've ever had. Add this to the fact he is 11 years older than you and it suggests quite an extreme imbalance in life experiences between you two. Now that doesn't mean that two people with such difference in age and experience can't have a good relationship, but this isn't the only problem that exists between the two of you. Now, to continue on with the age difference, the reason why so many people would say you are too young for him or too young to commit to a marriage has to do with the fact that at 18 you have had so little life experience and so much more of life to experience. The experiences you go through in life will change the person you are today. The relationships you develop with other people will also play a role in who you develop into as a mature woman. I can speak from experience when I say that the lack of confidence you have right now will wane over the years. Eventually you will be stronger in how you deal with life. You will be able to make decisions for yourself rather than have them made for you. Who you are in 11 years time will be a different person than who you are now. This man who is 11 years older has had a lot of these life experiences. He is not going to change as much as you will in the next 11 years. As you mature and evolve, will the relationship the two of you have be able to change as well?

You mentioned how angry he was that you had lied to him about posting on another site. I can certainly understand his feelings after being lied to, but you behaved as if the bigger problem was your being online. I would have suggested you not make him a promise you knew was so difficult to keep. However, that is a moot point now. Your insecurities are so apparent in your post. After he became angry with you, you asked him if he hated you. That statement alone is so telling of many things. It speaks about your insecurity, your immaturity (I say that not as a put down but as a description of where you are at emotionally and in your life experiences), and it speaks especially about your lack of experience in relationships. Anyone in a committed adult relationship is not going to hate their partner over one lie. And if you are engaged to this man, that is about as committed as you can get. Why would it even enter your mind to ask such a question?

Fallen Angel wrote:
He also questions my loyality to me, he doesn't think I'll be faithful to him. Because I'm friendly with this one boy from England he accused me of having a cyber-romance with him. I wasn't, I am only forum buddies with him and I told him so. But I don't think he believes me. Maybe because I can't tell the difference between flirting and being friendly. I'm not sure. I'm horriblely inept at all this.


In about two years time, I would love for you to be able to come back and reread your initial post. I think you would see what everyone else who has posted to this thread sees. He doesn't trust you and you are responding to his lack of trust by taking the blame for it. You have nothing to apologize for here. Absolutely nothing. The fact that he would make you question your loyalties to him in any way shape or form says a lot.

Perhaps it's understandable to have a tenuous trust early in a relationship, but to accuse you in the manner he has tells me he has trust issues. I can't help think that part of why he has chosen you has to do with the fact you are so much younger and therefore (in his eyes) more malleable and easy to control. The manner in which you respond to him indicates he is right.

Fallen Angel wrote:
He asked me want I wanted and I said I wanted to be punished because of my wrong doing. So as my punishment he is going to ignore me for a month or longer.


I just about fell over when I read this! I thought "you've GOT to be kidding me!!!" A loving healthy relationship between two adults does not place one partner at a higher level than the other! You should both be on the same level. You don't ask him to punish you!!! You make it sound like he's the parent and you're the child who needs a spanking for being bad! Puleeeze!!!! You are an adult. You don't take punishment from ANYONE other than the legal system if you break the law. And what makes this worse is the fact that by "punishing" you, he condones this sort of skewed aspect to your relationship! I couldn't get over the idea that his "punishment" is to ignore you. Okay, excuse me for this, but...what kinda crap is that?????? When a problem arises in a relationship you TALK about it with your partner. You DISCUSS it. You try to RESOLVE it through a MATURE dialogue! You don't "ignore" the other person. That is about the most childish thing I have ever heard. Don't you see this for yourself? Doesn't his whole action here indicate he isn't behaving in a mature, loving manner?? Oy!!

You've got to really start examining this relationship for what it is. It doesn't sound as though he has much respect for you if he is willing to behave in this manner - accusing you of cheating, punishing you by ignoring you for a month, and who knows what else.

Didn't you initially meet this guy online? How much face to face "real" time have you spent with him?

It's pretty heady stuff, especially for someone inexperienced like yourself who hasn't fully developed her "bullshit" radar yet, to have someone older pay attention to you. I can almost bet that it started out very romantically, with him telling you that you are special, or that he felt something special with you and all the other flowery stuff. I'm not saying he was insincere. That isn't what I'm saying at all. But saying all of this sort of thing is only one part to a full relationship. He has to SHOW you that you mean something to him. Has he done that? And there is so much more than just the "romance" of the relationship. Do the two of you share the same interests? The same goals in life? The same desires for the type of family life you would have together? Does he share your sense of humour?

I hope you really consider my words here. Ultimately you are the one in charge of your own life and the one who makes the decisions on how your life proceeds from this point forward. But please consider my words as well as those of others who have posted in this thread. From what you've described, I honestly don't think this guy is right for you. If this doesn't work out, sure it will be a painful experience, but nothing compared to what it would be like if you married this man and realized after the fact that he isn't right for you.
0 Replies
 
Fallen Angel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2004 12:10 am
caprice wrote:
Oy! I wasn't going to post because you seemed to be getting good advice from everyone else. But I get the impression you aren't really "hearing" the advice!

Where to begin. I guess the first thing I would STRONGLY suggest is, do not marry this man!!!!!!!!!! There are so many reasons not to and so many reasons why I can see this relationship heading towards a crash and burn.


'Tis a bit hard to marry him when he won't speak to me. But your point is taken.

Quote:
By your own admission, you are "very inexperienced at relationships" and "this is the first and only one" you've ever had. Add this to the fact he is 11 years older than you and it suggests quite an extreme imbalance in life experiences between you two. Now that doesn't mean that two people with such difference in age and experience can't have a good relationship, but this isn't the only problem that exists between the two of you. Now, to continue on with the age difference, the reason why so many people would say you are too young for him or too young to commit to a marriage has to do with the fact that at 18 you have had so little life experience and so much more of life to experience. The experiences you go through in life will change the person you are today. The relationships you develop with other people will also play a role in who you develop into as a mature woman. I can speak from experience when I say that the lack of confidence you have right now will wane over the years. Eventually you will be stronger in how you deal with life. You will be able to make decisions for yourself rather than have them made for you. Who you are in 11 years time will be a different person than who you are now. This man who is 11 years older has had a lot of these life experiences. He is not going to change as much as you will in the next 11 years. As you mature and evolve, will the relationship the two of you have be able to change as well?


I would hope so.

Quote:
You mentioned how angry he was that you had lied to him about posting on another site. I can certainly understand his feelings after being lied to, but you behaved as if the bigger problem was your being online. I would have suggested you not make him a promise you knew was so difficult to keep. However, that is a moot point now.


Well, he seemed to have acted more upset about the time I spent online then about my lying about it. I know I shouldn't have made a promise I wasn't sure I could keep. I didn't realize how addicted I was.

Quote:
Your insecurities are so apparent in your post. After he became angry with you, you asked him if he hated you. That statement alone is so telling of many things. It speaks about your insecurity, your immaturity (I say that not as a put down but as a description of where you are at emotionally and in your life experiences), and it speaks especially about your lack of experience in relationships. Anyone in a committed adult relationship is not going to hate their partner over one lie. And if you are engaged to this man, that is about as committed as you can get. Why would it even enter your mind to ask such a question?


I am not sure. I do have an somewhat irrational fear of having someone stop loving me. I know I'm insecure and immature, so I take no offense.

Quote:

Perhaps it's understandable to have a tenuous trust early in a relationship, but to accuse you in the manner he has tells me he has trust issues. I can't help think that part of why he has chosen you has to do with the fact you are so much younger and therefore (in his eyes) more malleable and easy to control. The manner in which you respond to him indicates he is right.


Well he has said a few times that he has too much control over me.

Quote:
I just about fell over when I read this! I thought "you've GOT to be kidding me!!!" A loving healthy relationship between two adults does not place one partner at a higher level than the other! You should both be on the same level. You don't ask him to punish you!!! You make it sound like he's the parent and you're the child who needs a spanking for being bad! Puleeeze!!!! You are an adult. You don't take punishment from ANYONE other than the legal system if you break the law. And what makes this worse is the fact that by "punishing" you, he condones this sort of skewed aspect to your relationship! I couldn't get over the idea that his "punishment" is to ignore you. Okay, excuse me for this, but...what kinda crap is that?????? When a problem arises in a relationship you TALK about it with your partner. You DISCUSS it. You try to RESOLVE it through a MATURE dialogue! You don't "ignore" the other person. That is about the most childish thing I have ever heard. Don't you see this for yourself? Doesn't his whole action here indicate he isn't behaving in a mature, loving manner?? Oy!!


Yes I do agree with you there; the punishment part and the ignoring part. I would have rather discussed the situation with him. But at the time I was very upset when I said that I guess I was thinking that he'd have a different reaction in the back of my mind then actually agreeing to punish me. I can't seem to understand why he'd pick that as a punishment, because to be that would be the worse thing you could do to a relationship.

Quote:
You've got to really start examining this relationship for what it is. It doesn't sound as though he has much respect for you if he is willing to behave in this manner - accusing you of cheating, punishing you by ignoring you for a month, and who knows what else.


Actaully, now it's two months. *cringe* He decided to extend the punishment for an extra month because I posted one farewell poem on my old forum (which I was a moderater on thus part of the reason I spent so much time there. I didn't think it was fair just to up and vanish without saying goodbye there in spite of his order.) Yes, it is getting ridiculous. Even I have to admit it now.

Quote:
Didn't you initially meet this guy online? How much face to face "real" time have you spent with him?


Yes and quite a bit.

Quote:
It's pretty heady stuff, especially for someone inexperienced like yourself who hasn't fully developed her "bullshit" radar yet, to have someone older pay attention to you. I can almost bet that it started out very romantically, with him telling you that you are special, or that he felt something special with you and all the other flowery stuff. I'm not saying he was insincere. That isn't what I'm saying at all. But saying all of this sort of thing is only one part to a full relationship.


Nah, that was one thing I was quite disapointed about, but never held against him, he's never been much of a romantic. He did tell me that I was special, made me a necklace, wrote me one love letter, gave me a book, and spent a lot of money to come visit me, etc... But to me that's not all that romantic and I wasn't that impressed.

Quote:
He has to SHOW you that you mean something to him. Has he done that? And there is so much more than just the "romance" of the relationship. Do the two of you share the same interests? The same goals in life? The same desires for the type of family life you would have together? Does he share your sense of humour?


Yes, that's one of the reasons I fell in love with him in the first place because he does have the same interests, goals, politics, etc...

Quote:
I hope you really consider my words here. Ultimately you are the one in charge of your own life and the one who makes the decisions on how your life proceeds from this point forward. But please consider my words as well as those of others who have posted in this thread. From what you've described, I honestly don't think this guy is right for you. If this doesn't work out, sure it will be a painful experience, but nothing compared to what it would be like if you married this man and realized after the fact that he isn't right for you.


Yes, I have considered what you've said. Thank you.
0 Replies
 
Fallen Angel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2004 12:16 am
nimh wrote:
On one thing the guy is right, I think - especially if you've thus far had a life of homeschooling with few social contacts, its better to go out into real life and mingle & explore there than to surf the web for contacts that feel like real - even if the latter is much easier (and even if, of course, even the latter can still yield the odd real-life friendship, as many here will testify).


Yeah, I know I do spend too much time online and he is right about that.

Quote:
But on all the other counts, based on what you've told us here, I'm with the rest - this guy doesnt exactly make a good impression. Suspicious and distrustful is bad. Trying to coerce you, rather than merely encourage / support you, into doing what he thinks is right is worse. Thats the kind of thing that would trigger some negative associations about 30-year old guys who go for 20-year old girls with little real life experience.


He did encourage and support me at first... but then when I messed up and posted on that forum against his wishes and then lied about doing so he got very pissed off at me.

Quote:
Keep us informed and remember to always keep your own interests at heart, the way you see them.


Okay, will do.
0 Replies
 
Fallen Angel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2004 12:31 am
Camille wrote:


I'm sorry Fallen Angel, must have been a senior moment. Embarrassed


That's okay.

Quote:
I still think "addiction" is used way too much to describe habits. Yes, you can be abnormally addicted to something, someone or some substance but it's a big jump from a habit to an addiction.


Yes I agree. But when I say addiction I do mean addiction, not habit. As for internet addiction that'd be spending most of your awaking hours online, which I was doing at one time.
0 Replies
 
caprice
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2004 02:30 am
I wish I hadn't come back and read this because you may say you have taken my words into consideration, but reading your response to my post and the others indicates you haven't really looked at anything differently.

Fallen Angel wrote:
caprice wrote:
As you mature and evolve, will the relationship the two of you have be able to change as well?


I would hope so.


You would hope so? I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that you made this comment. You don't know how it would evolve. And you don't know in large part to the fact you just don't know this man. If you knew him well enough, you would have been able to predict his behaviour to some extent, but by what you have written in this thread, it doesn't seem as if you know how to predict him at all.

Fallen Angel wrote:
Well, he seemed to have acted more upset about the time I spent online then about my lying about it.


Oh really now? That's odd. He can accept the lie more so than the fact you were online. I would have expected the opposite from someone in a mature relationship. Why would he be THAT bothered by you being on the internet?

Fallen Angel wrote:
I know I shouldn't have made a promise I wasn't sure I could keep. I didn't realize how addicted I was.


If what I have read is true and recent, there is debate amongst professionals in the psychiatric community over whether or not internet "addiction" is a real addiction. Is your online activity interferring with your real life? If friends asked you to go out for the evening to a movie would you turn them down to spend time online? Is your time online taking away from school or your job? (I don't know if you're a student or working.)

If you want to reduce your use of the internet for yourself (and NOT because someone else TELLS you that you MUST do it) you can do it. Map out a time schedule for yourself where you are online for X amount of time in a day. Plan an activity before and after that time. For example, say you devote your internet time before you go to bed. Know that at 10 p.m. (or whenever) you are going offline to go to bed. Prior to your surfing time, you study, read, go out with a friend, go to the gym....just something that would take you away from the computer. After a certain period of time you'll find your "need" to go online doesn't seem so strong, if it exists at all. I spend waaaay too much time online myself. But I have no problem walking away. The only thing I would really miss about being online is keeping in touch with real life friends (former co-workers, friends who have moved away, family members, etc.) via e-mail. Other than that, I don't "need" to be on here.

Fallen Angel wrote:
I do have an somewhat irrational fear of having someone stop loving me.


If you recognize it as being irrational, perhaps that's half the battle. I also believe that it isn't a good idea to become involved with someone when your own self-esteem doesn't seem that good. He can trample all over that if you let him and it seems you are by allowing this ridiculous punishment to continue.

Fallen Angel wrote:
Well he has said a few times that he has too much control over me.


A case in point.

Have you asked yourself why he has so much control over you? And don't answer "because I love him" because that isn't the reason at all.

Fallen Angel wrote:
Yes I do agree with you there; the punishment part and the ignoring part. I would have rather discussed the situation with him. But at the time I was very upset when I said that I guess I was thinking that he'd have a different reaction in the back of my mind then actually agreeing to punish me. I can't seem to understand why he'd pick that as a punishment, because to be that would be the worse thing you could do to a relationship.


Well if that seems to be the worse thing to do to a relationship, why didn't you say that to him? Why didn't you tell him that was something that would tear the relationship down and not help it?

When you said you expected him to have a different reaction, that implies two things. One, that you don't really know him well (as I mentioned already) to have surprised you this way, and two, the person you see him to be in your mind's eye is not the person he is. Maybe you have him built up as an entirely different person. If that's the case, you're only going to be disappointed again and again.

Fallen Angel wrote:
Actaully, now it's two months. *cringe* He decided to extend the punishment for an extra month because I posted one farewell poem on my old forum (which I was a moderater on thus part of the reason I spent so much time there. I didn't think it was fair just to up and vanish without saying goodbye there in spite of his order.) Yes, it is getting ridiculous. Even I have to admit it now.


Excuse me? He "decided" to extend "the punishment"??? First off, it's obvious now that he isn't "punishing" you for lying. (And what a crock of sh*t that is to begin with.) He's "punishing" you for being online. That really isn't what you agreed to. And the biggest part is that it really isn't his decision to make. Why is he making all the decisions in the relationship? This isn't a relationship, he's pretending to be the parent here.

I hate to bring this up, but this sounds so similar to something I witnessed online a couple of years ago. Is it at all possible that this man is a player and that having you offline allows him to be online with someone else without you knowing about it? What reason...what REALISTIC reason does he have for keeping you offline and for "punishing" you by keeping apart from you? If I were you (and quite honestly kiddo I wouldn't be because I'm not going to put myself in the position you are in) I would confront him and say this "punishment" is done. That you are his g/f and not his child. That if he wants this relationship then he has to want to discuss it openly and honestly.

Fallen Angel wrote:
caprice wrote:
Didn't you initially meet this guy online? How much face to face "real" time have you spent with him?


Yes and quite a bit.


May I ask how long you have known this man? And how much of that time was face to face time? And where he is from?

Fallen Angel wrote:
...and spent a lot of money to come visit me, etc... But to me that's not all that romantic and I wasn't that impressed.


I think spending money to visit is a romantic gesture. Why weren't you impressed? If he wasn't romantic, which you were disappointed by, what made you decide he is the man you want to spend the next 50+ years with?

Fallen Angel wrote:
Yes, that's one of the reasons I fell in love with him in the first place because he does have the same interests, goals, politics, etc...


I notice you didn't answer the first part about whether or not he shows you how much you mean to him. Has he?

Fallen Angel wrote:
Yes, I have considered what you've said. Thank you.


Hmmm....call me skeptical.

Okay, so anyhow, after all the comments posted to you here, what, if any, advice are you looking for?
0 Replies
 
caprice
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2004 02:36 am
Fallen Angel wrote:
He did encourage and support me at first... but then when I messed up and posted on that forum against his wishes and then lied about doing so he got very pissed off at me.


Uhm....what's wrong with this picture? You went against his wishes??? So I ask you again, how can he determine how this relationship goes with no input from you? *shakes head* If this is the type of relationship he expects to have, it's only going to get worse. You may be compliant right now, but it won't always be this way. You're going to get fed up by his dictating manner. And then where will your relationship with him be? You'll start resenting him, and rightfully so. Will all of this happen after you marry him and start having children with him? I guess I shouldn't worry too much though. I really can't see your relationship progressing that far. It's just not a realistic relationship.
0 Replies
 
Jer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2004 02:59 am
f.a.,

You mentioned:
Quote:
Quote:
I am not sure. I do have an somewhat irrational fear of having someone stop loving me.


I read a bit of this thread the other day and then went on with other reading. I quickly looked at it tonight and saw Caprice's post. Your statement, posted above, really jumped out at me.

I don't think you're ready to be in a serious relationship if you've got the fear of having someone stop loving you.

I believe that to be in a healthy relationship you've got to be confident that you are happy on your own, with yourself, otherwise your happiness is always at the mercy of your partner.

There's no race to be married - and if you aren't sure, it's best to wait. In waiting the worst that can happen is you get married later on, or you don't because it's not the right match.

It's easy to wait - but can get very difficult if you don't...we see it every day on daytime tv.
0 Replies
 
caprice
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2004 03:04 am
There ya go Fallen Angel. Who knew someone as young as Jer (and a guy to boot!!!) would have so much common sense? What he said is so very true.
0 Replies
 
Camille
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2004 08:51 am
Jer wrote:
I believe that to be in a healthy relationship you've got to be confident that you are happy on your own, with yourself, otherwise your happiness is always at the mercy of your partner.


You are SO right! When I was young, I used to think you needed a partner to "complete" you, that one should be strong where the other is weak, but then I learned that a good relationship is two whole individuals coming together and if you don't love yourself, ain't nobody gonna love you the way you want to be loved.
0 Replies
 
 

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