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What is the point to 'SATAN'

 
 
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 12:40 pm
Biblically, God is omnipotent and omnipresent (everywhere at once). So what is the role of 'SATAN'?
Keep in mind.... Satan cannot act unless God allows it, for God is Omnipotent.
Satan, being ALLOWED to commit evil, does so with God's consent.
And God, in His own words, professes to be the (SOLE) harbinger of both good and evil (Isaiah 45:7) - NT: ALL acts are BY Him, FOR Him and THROUGH Him.....????

SO...... Satan is clearly of NO purpose whatsoever...

And please - straight answers only - the faith and fulfilment crap is not relevant .
Cheers
Mark...
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Type: Question • Score: 10 • Views: 5,008 • Replies: 86

 
rosborne979
 
  5  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 01:38 pm
@mark noble,
You're not actually trying to make sense of any of this stuff are you?
Frank Apisa
 
  7  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 01:47 pm
@mark noble,
Mark, I cannot understand how you can think that satin has no purpose whatsoever!

It is used in dresses (including wedding dresses); sheets, furniture, drapes, and a host of oth...

...uhhh...

...oh...

...Satan.

Well, I wouldn't know anything about that.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  3  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 02:02 pm
@mark noble,
The role is that there must be a villain to the story. And Satan fulfills that purpose. See, this way God gets off the hook. Bad things aren't God's fault - they're Satan's. And when we do bad things, we can also blame Satan. E. g. we weren't intrinsically evil. Instead, we were swayed by the dark side. If there was no Satan entrapping us, we'd be awesome individuals, 24/7!

Satan is, essentially, both the human and the divine scapegoat.
dalehileman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 02:19 pm
@mark noble,
Quote:
Biblically, God is omnipotent
No, Sorry Mark, She isn't. First of all omnipotence negates the idea of freewill and second, She cannot do the impossible. Thus if the humanoid is a requirement, he can only be evolved on the surface of a spherical rock full of cracks and with a molten core under pressure; orbiting somewhat precariously in the immediate absence of a big, heavy asteroid of random pathway, a huge hydrogen bomb and destined eventually to be drawn into and destroyed by a phenom called the Big Crunch

Again She cannot perform that which cannot be done, for instance make herself both exist and not exist, or in a more practical vein perhaps, make something out of nothing

Hence storms, earthquakes, volcanoes, strife, pain, disease, war, etc

Quote:
and omnipresent (everywhere at once).
But yes, as an apodictical existential pantheist I can attest She is indeed everywhere all at once

Quote:
So what is the role of 'SATAN'?
He is more nearly abstract than She. On the absgtract-concrete spectrum with a rock, say, near the left or concrete end and Her near the opposite, or abstract, He is represented to Her right (forgive pun)


Quote:
Keep in mind.... Satan cannot act unless God allows it, for God is Omnipotent.
False, He has freewill just as She. Perhaps He embodies what we consider Her imperfections

Quote:
Satan, being ALLOWED to commit evil,
….by freewill..though you must remember "evil" is a relative phenom. What She the Christian Power considers good in his treatment, the porker for instance finds evil of the most awful magnitude, forced by her to live in mud as he does; then She hangs him up by the rear legs bleeding to death in the utmost pain from a split throat before ultimately eating him

Quote:
does so with God's consent.
In a sense true, only because She permits what owing to freewill She cannot control

Quote:
And God, in His own words, professes to be the (SOLE) harbinger of both good and evil (Isaiah 45:7)…..
Forgive me Mark but not all of us take the tome so seriously. However some of us do nevertheless consider its truth in a purely symbolic form

Quote:
SO...... Satan is clearly of NO purpose whatsoever...
True, but only in the sense that his inevitable presence can't be avoided. His (largely abstract) existence does however make life more interesting to be sure

Quote:
And please - straight answers only - the faith and fulfilment crap is not relevant .
Straight answer: A q of that magnitude requires volumes in reply. But first you have to concede that according to the general principle that nothing is entirely anything while everything is partly something else, its position on the concrete-abvstract spectrum is not a measure of its reality

Indeed the Universe is Her body and all the activity therein Her mind at work

(Even Costco for instance, slightly to the right of the rock, is largely abstract, its concrete form merely groupings of humanoids moving physical objects from one location to another whilst muttering at one another)

Quote:
Cheers
Applause


Quote:
Mark...
Dale
dalehileman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 02:22 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
You're not actually trying to make sense of any of this stuff are you?
Mark obviously is, Ros. Did you mean me but inadvertently address your remark to him

Oops that can't be can it, as you responded while I was still composing
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 02:38 pm
@jespah,
Quote:
…...there must be a villain to the story. And Satan fulfills……
Yes one might say His entire purpose (however abstract) is to make The Entire Megillah more interesting. How boring if everything were just fine, no contrasts

Quote:
See, this way God gets off the hook
Yes for Goodness Sake (forgive pun)

Quote:
Bad things aren't God's fault - they're Satan's.
Only to certain specific groups of humanoids

Quote:
And when we do bad things, we can also blame Satan. E. g. we weren't intrinsically evil.
A certain truth to that, inasmuch as we're to a large degree determined, that the gift of freewill is often very difficult or almost impossible to exercise

For instance it appalls me to wonder, born 1930 of Deutsch ancestry, with only a very slight difference of circumstance I might have born in Berlin, would I have joined the New Hitler Youth, heiling him and hating The Jew

Quote:
Instead, we were swayed by the dark side.
Amen (pun unintended), Jes

Quote:
If there was no Satan entrapping us, we'd be awesome individuals, 24/7!
Well put indeed Jes, and I know how it can be done. However there's much resistance, mainly from The Right, and so I have little hope for adoption

Quote:
Satan is, essentially, both the human and the divine scapegoat.
I couldn't have expressed it better; on our scale of abstraction the humanoid 'way over toward the Left and divine at the right (that one intended)
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 04:33 pm
@dalehileman,
Ive allowed him to introduce himself,
Hes a man of wealth and taste.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  4  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 05:02 pm
@mark noble,
Not that I believe in his existence, but his role within the Christian cosmos is The Tempter.

He tests our faith by appealing to the dark side of our free will.

A declaration of faith and adherence to the laws of God aren't so special if there isn't an alternative.

Considering he was once first among the angels in the eyes of God, he's quite a rich literary character as William Blake and many others have recognized.
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 05:15 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
@all

Finn got it right. Satan is the personification, not of evil, but of our darker impulses. He is the tempter. In fact, that is the only power he is initially allowed to have. Satan has no other power except to tempt. Now if Man succumbs to one of these temptations, Satan's power increases.

I do hope you understand that this is all allegory, not even straight mythology.
dalehileman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 07:20 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Ive allowed him to introduce himself,
Then is it you who screens participants

If so it seems you're quite liberal


Quote:
Hes a man of wealth and taste.
Yes his name is even Noble

…or were you referring to Satan
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 07:29 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Not that I believe in his existence,
One has a choice depending upon what degree of abstraction one can tolerate. I for one see Him quite a way to the right of Her since She at least has a body where He doesn't
0 Replies
 
nothingtodo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 08:46 pm
@dalehileman,
Excellent dude.
Only you forgot one thing.

'Fault ' implies it could have been different, mankind must be taught, therefore blame and fault only apply if mankind has already learned and no action was needed.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 09:24 pm
@nothingtodo,
Quote:
Excellent dude.
Why thank you Tod, a pinch of encouragement is most ineluctable in this otherwise contentious fulmination of grandiloquent acrimony


Only you forgot one thing.

Quote:
…. blame and fault only apply if mankind has already learned and no action was needed.
I don't recall defining "Fault" but I'm sure you're perfectly right in this connection

I do however seriously doubt that--even through many sequential restructurings through the Big-Bang, Evolution, Big-Crunch--that the humanoid will prove or has proven substantially different since it has to start from scratch each time
nothingtodo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 09:33 pm
@dalehileman,
Fair comment.
Thank you for that elegant recounting. You have re-opened my eyes to a point which I had not truly attempted to harness, a point of quite rare worth.
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2012 10:46 pm
@mark noble,
Satan is just another Gawd in the Fundamentalist Calvinist Polyidolitry: The father; the son; the Holy Ghost; and Satan to explain the meaning of predestined bad occurrences like Hitler, Calugia, and Herod.

Rap
roger
 
  2  
Reply Sat 22 Dec, 2012 12:24 am
@nothingtodo,
I'm happy the two of you have found someone to talk to.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Dec, 2012 12:40 am
@nothingtodo,
Quote:
a point of quite rare worth.
A point deeply appreciate, Tod, in this quotidian diriment of convoluted hermeneutic miasma
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Dec, 2012 12:46 am
@nothingtodo,
Quote:
a point of quite rare worth.
I am most sincerely beholden for your and hermeneutic cognition
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Dec, 2012 12:55 am
@raprap,
Rap you misjudge Him. Her is merely what's left else after everything has reached its pinnacle
0 Replies
 
 

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