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The far right rewrites history

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 12:27 pm
McGentrix wrote:
If there is a problem with history in schools, let's discuss who is writting and editing the history texts...


Good point!

(And I'm not just saying that for the shock effect four liberals agreeing with him must have on McG Very Happy )

Scrat wrote:
I was taught that this is the best nation in the world, and I think that was the right thing to teach a kid in America. I also expect a kid in France to be taught that France is the best nation in the world. That's just my opinion. You are welcome to disagree. Very Happy


Hell yeh I disagree ! Razz

How has teaching anyone his/her country is "the best nation in the world" anything whatsoever to do with teaching the discipline of history? Isn't it like the very antithesis of science?

Not to mention the detrimental effects teaching each country's kids that their country is best have on their future capacities of understanding each other and getting along with each other ... hint: most European countries did away with the "my country is best" teaching after World War Two.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 12:28 pm
Well, the website of the "Ministre de la Jeunesse, de l'Education Nationale et de la Recherche" is HERE,

this HERE is the website of the "Ministère de la Jeunesse, de l'Education et de la Recherche" ('undersecretary of state'),

and THIS HERE is the link to the "Agenda de l'éducation".

The website Histoire de France gives a really good idea, of how French history is taught to French pupils, since it's a teacher's guide.

And here's as an example, the Département d'Histoire from ENS (École Normale Supérieur = kind of elite university).
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 12:29 pm
Setanta wrote:
It is ironic that the right is now pushing a method which is at the heart of Marxist dialectic--the interpretation of history in service of ideology.


<big grin>
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georgeob1
 
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Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 12:35 pm
I believe many on the right would say the same thing about modern PC revisionist history - and with about as much reason and fantasy as their critics.
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Setanta
 
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Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 12:36 pm
There ya go, Scrat, take yer pick. I'm happy to translate any of those pages which Walter linked, and, of course, HB has made the same offer, as he is home ill, and has more time.

We want our right-wingnuts to be well informed when they make their egregiously partisan statements . . .
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Setanta
 
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Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 12:37 pm
O'George, we already expect the left to practice Marxist dialectic--it's just such a disappointment to see Ray-gun's minions doing the same . . .
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 12:39 pm
[Glad, no-one asked me to do the translations!]



George,

you "believe many on the right would say the same thing about modern PC revisionist history".

You mean "right historians" or "right history laymen" or ... ?
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 12:40 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
I believe many on the right would say the same thing about modern PC revisionist history - and with about as much reason and fantasy as their critics.


One difference here is that in the context of this thread, Setanta is referring to a very specific (and quite vivid) example - namely, the article this thread is about. Whereas your reference to "modern PC revisionist history", even if it does represent a pars pro toto for what, when fully eleborated, would probably constitute a valid enough point of its own, as it is stands as a kind of blanket, abstract putdown.

I've come to really dislike any of that pattern in which, when something specifically wrong is pointed out on one end of the political spectrum, those veering that way respond with a generalised, "well, but on your side you have stuff like that too/worse".
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 12:48 pm
Dislike it if you wish. However in this case it raises a very serious, and so far unanswered, question concerning the validity of the basic proposition in this thread. If you will return to page 1 you will find rather unqualified condemnation of those who argue for a focus on Western Civilization in our basic (not graduate level) educational programs. If you are unwilling to consider the possibility that the pot may be calling the kettle black here, then perhaps you are not interested in objective understanding at all.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 12:53 pm
George, the condemnation is not for the study of western cuiv, but for the selective teaching of certain aspects of western civ in support of a partisan agenda. If you had actually read the comments people have made here, you would find that no one supports selective teaching in support of any agenda.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 01:02 pm
I have read them and I do understand. The dispute here is not about selectivity at all - it is about what is selected.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 01:06 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
I have read them and I do understand. The dispute here is not about selectivity at all - it is about what is selected.

It is really dissapointing to see that some are unable to avoid seeing everything in terms of partisanship.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 04:37 pm
Re: The far right rewrites history
Here is yor original post which launched this thread. Your comments are a good deal more partisan, strident, and critical than are those of the "right wing extremist" you quoted. It is a bit late for you now to try and appear objective and non partisan.

hobitbob wrote:
The latest from Tom "I'm proud to be a belligerent bigot" Tancredo.Save Western Civilization from "unpatriotic" interperetation! Stop teaching about them damned Injuns...we won, we get to write the story!
Quote:

In recent years, some in our public education system have turned their backs on the notion of instilling in our students a sense of pride and appreciation for American history and Western civilization. Instead, many classrooms have become places openly hostile to these ideals, with teachers and textbooks espousing venomous and anti-American rhetoric to de-emphasize the importance of our collective, historical accomplishments. This disturbing development has contributed to an academic community that is, in many cases, actively attempting to indoctrinate students with negative impressions of America, and a corrosive kind of moral relativism. This leaves American students without an adequate understanding of their past and inhibits their ability to gain a moral compass. In some of the worst examples, this phenomenon has transformed American classrooms and campuses into laboratories of counter-culture experimentation and indecency. As a taxpayer, parent, grandparent, and former public school teacher, I find this trend alarming.

In response, I plan to introduce a resolution that recognizes that teaching young people to have an appreciation of Western civilization is central to the development of a united and enduring American society. It also encourages local school boards and State departments of education to ensure that the concepts and ideals embodied by Western civilization are effectively taught in public schools. In addition, I am working with Members of my State House and State Senate to introduce, and press for passage of a similar resolution at the state level.

If you are disheartened by what is happening in our schools with respect to this issue, I hope you can help. Propose a resolution to your school board. Get your state representative to sponsor a resolution. We will only be able to turn back this tide if dedicated people like you help us.

Is this education? No, its propoganda.
His site includes selected quotes from secondary level texts and comments by academics, equally selectively edited, to show that there is a "vast leftist conspiracy" to prevent students from learning how wonderful westward expansion was, how the Pilgrims were welcomed to Plymoth, and how non-western societies are anything but the crap that all right thinking Americans know they are."
Share this with your legislators and urge them to vote against it. better yet, for anyone in Tancredos district, run the bum out of office on a sharp rail placed selectively in a nether orifice!
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 04:39 pm
George, what on earth are you talking about?
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 07:42 pm
John Andrews visits college classroom to push this atrocity
Quote:
Andrews looks to Western civilization
Proposed resolution aims to re-focus ed. on U.S. history
By Ivan Moreno
Published: Wednesday, March 10, 2004
Media Credit: Jason Bye
Andrews explains why Western civilization is so important in education.

Media Credit: Jason Bye
A captive class listens

Media Credit: Jason Bye
Creative Resistance opposes Andrews´ resolution

Proposed resolution aims to re-focus ed. on U.S. history



Ivan Moreno

Staff Writer



Colorado President of Senate John Andrews defended a resolution encouraging schools to recognize the importance of Western civilization history during a Metro political science class last Wednesday.

Andrews, R-Centennial, said he introduced resolution 04-017 to ask public schools to present "an accurate portrayal of where America came from as a nation."

The resolution states: "Our country's history, form of government, and constitution can be fully understood only in light of their roots in the heritage of Western civilization, deriving anciently from Israel, Greece, and Rome, and, since at least 1215, C.E., from Great Britain."

A resolution differs from a bill because it lacks force of law. It is only a sentiment being promoted by a legislator.

"It doesn't make anybody do anything," Andrews said of the resolution he introduced March 3 to Colorado legislators. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Littleton, introduced a similar resolution to Congress the same day.

Members of campus group Creative Resistance, who see the resolution as an attempt to demote multicultural teaching stood outside classroom 123 of the Science Building where Andrews spoke. One member said he thinks the resolution ignores the contributions of other nations in favor of the West.

"Taking a couple of people who you think are more advanced than others is in itself a racist idea," Metro sophomore Jared Rice said.

According to Rice, education should be centered around learning more about other cultures. "If you went to any high school all you got was Western Civilization and most of that was American Civilization," he said.

In defense, Andrews said there is not a word on the resolution that says anything about downgrading multicultural teaching and it's important that students learn about every culture in the world.

"But multiculturalism, when carried to an extreme becomes a blame-America, or a blame-Europe, or a blame-white-males distortion," Andrews said. "And when that happens students are being miseducated (sic). They're being cheated of an accurate understanding of what has been laudable as well as regrettable about the history of our nation and of the European and Mediterranean nations from which it grew."

The resolution states: "Contemporary educational trends often downgrade the teaching of Western civilization and its contributions in favor of a multicultural approach that emphasizes the differences among Americans, rather than their common heritage."

If the resolution passes, it would encourage schools to present a balanced portrayal of U.S. heritage from Western civilization, which includes representative government, democracy, individual rights, and religious tolerance, according to Andrews.

"I think it's a really dangerous, devised resolution," Creative Resistance member Jessica Miklich said. "I don't think it talks about what they're really trying to do at all."

Miklich said the resolution appears to gloss over history and ignore the contributions from myriad ethnic groups in America.

Andrews said his intern warned him there would be students in the room who disagreed with him, to which Andrews replied he would be disappointed if there weren't.

"I'm probably looking at future elected officials here," he said to the students at the American State and Local Government class. "I know that I'm going to be in a dialogue with people who have perspectives on the job that we have to do at the state legislature, so one of the things I enjoy about visiting a classroom like this is the opportunity to see what those perspectives are, to get people thinking."

Andrews, who is serving in his final year as Senate President, spoke to the class about his career in politics and this year's 120-day legislative session. There are about 800 pieces of legislature introduced for debate each year, but only about 100 implemented. "It's impossible to know about all of them," Andrews said.

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