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The far right rewrites history

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2004 08:58 pm
Hmmm...I must be slipping... Embarrassed
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2004 08:59 pm
You can do it, man...invective....insult....
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2004 10:17 pm
nimh - I think I was clear as to what I meant, and it has nothing to do with "fuzzing" anything. It has to do with context. I was taught that this is the best nation in the world, and I think that was the right thing to teach a kid in America. I also expect a kid in France to be taught that France is the best nation in the world. That's just my opinion. You are welcome to disagree. Very Happy
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 12:11 am
Scrat wrote:
I was taught that this is the best nation in the world, and I think that was the right thing to teach a kid in America. I also expect a kid in France to be taught that France is the best nation in the world. That's just my opinion. You are welcome to disagree. Very Happy


My parents where taught such at their school time as well.

I do know abit about a history lessons (and history) in France (and the UK), besides in my own country.

As far as my experience is, you are wrong, Scrat.
(No doubt, the focus in history classes in each country is on the own history.)
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Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 02:31 am
Scrat wrote:
nimh - I think I was clear as to what I meant, and it has nothing to do with "fuzzing" anything. It has to do with context. I was taught that this is the best nation in the world, and I think that was the right thing to teach a kid in America. I also expect a kid in France to be taught that France is the best nation in the world. That's just my opinion. You are welcome to disagree. Very Happy


I didn't get taught to love my country in school, that grew on it's own. Americans brand of patriotism is a fairly unique on this planet. But then again, Canadians aren't really flag wavers. Cool
I don't think one american person on this site would disagree with you there, but that was not the point of the article or the web site.

When I was in junior high a friend of mine moved to Texas to live with her Dad. She would spent one year there and then came back. She had to study two years worth of history (in both countries) and newspapers (here) to catch up, in order to pass her classes every year. Her american studies were very insular and very patriotic. Then she would come back here and be immersed in canadian and world politics and history.

My point is, it always struck me as odd, maybe because canada doesn't have as long a history, that your history classes always seemed to be about yourselves. World history, politics and geography were of little interest. News programs, newspapers and so on reflect this. Hell depending on the direction, most americans no very little about there neighbours to the north or south. I don't think the US school system could ever be found guilty of putting out little revolutionaries.

McG point is right on the mark too. Curriculums are guidelines, just as current events colour discussions and assignments.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 07:39 am
Quote:
Educational ineptitude
Walter E. Williams


March 10, 2004

What passes for educational enlightenment these days boggles the mind. Matt Gouras, of The Associated Press, writing in the Jan. 5 Seattle Times tells a story about Tennessee schools. The success of some students has made other students feel badly about themselves.


What're the schools' responses? Public schools in Nashville have stopped posting honor rolls. Some are considering a ban on posting exemplary schoolwork on bulletin boards. Others have canceled academic pep rallies, while others might eliminate spelling bees. Nashville's Julia Green Elementary School principal, Steven Baum, agrees, thinking that spelling bees and publicly graded events are leftovers from the days of ranking and sorting students. He says: "I discourage competitive games at school. They just don't fit my worldview of what a school should be."

This is a vision all too common among today's educationists, but there's a good reason for it: too large a percentage of teachers represent the very bottom of the academic achievement barrel and as such fall easy prey to mindless and destructive fads.

Retired Indiana University (of Pennsylvania) physics professor Donald E. Simanek has assembled considerable data on just who becomes a teacher. Freshman college students who choose education as a major "are on the average, one of the academically weakest groups. Those choosing non-teaching physics and math are one of the academically strongest groups. Some of the more capable who initially chose teaching will find the teacher-preparation curriculum to be boring and intellectually empty, and shift to curricula that are academically more challenging and rewarding." Simanek adds: "On tests such as the Wessman Personnel Classification Test of verbal analogy and elementary arithmetical computations, the teachers scored, on average, only slightly better than clerical workers. A rather low score was enough to pass. Yet half the teachers failed."

There are other causes for the sorry state of today's primary and secondary education. There's been the politicizing of education. Teachers have recruited students to write letters to the president protesting the war and participate in demonstrations against school budget cuts. Very often, good teachers and principal are faced with the impossible task of having to deal with administrators and school boards who are intellectual inferiors and motivated by political considerations rather than what's best for children.

One of the very best things that can be done for education is to eliminate schools of education. There's little in the curriculum that contributes directly to the development of the mind. Simanek says that "most teachers have learned 'methods and skills' of teaching, but don't have a solid understanding of the subject they teach. So they end up 'teaching' trivia, misinformation and intellectual garbage, but doing it with 'professional' polish. Most do not display love of learning, nor the ability to do intense intellectual activity of any kind. Lacking these qualities, they cannot possibly inspire and nourish these qualities in their students."

According to a recent study by the North Central Regional Education Laboratory titled, "Effective Teacher Recruitment and Retention Strategies in the Midwest," 75 percent to 100 percent of the teachers that leave the profession are ranked as either "effective" or "very effective.

To improve teaching, we must attract people of higher intellectual ability and we must make teacher salaries related to ability and effectiveness. We must ensure that teachers have more academic freedom, better working conditions and a suitable environment for teaching. An important component of that environment is the capacity to remove students who are alien and hostile to the education process. Finally, we should consider curriculum changes that eliminate courses that have little, if anything, to do with reading, writing and arithmetic.

The low academic quality of many of our teachers is neither flattering nor comfortable to confront, but confront it we must if we're to do anything about our sorry state of education.




©2004 Creators Syndicate, Inc.


There's an old saying that goes "If the student hasn't learned, the teacher hasn't taught". Over the past generation or so, the institution of American Public Education has galloped toward mediocrity. Given the current general focus, its a wonder its product is able to function well enough to fill out the forms required to apply for unemployment. What passes for Education today is little more than the pressing of Politically Correct Agenda; striving to avoid offending any all enlightens none.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 08:46 am
Hmmh.

Here, in Germany and most other European countries, future history teachers study history (and a second topic) for at (in Germany: at least) four years.

Hmmmh.
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 09:08 am
Quote:
There's an old saying that goes "If the student hasn't learned, the teacher hasn't taught". Over the past generation or so, the institution of American Public Education has galloped toward mediocrity. Given the current general focus, its a wonder its product is able to function well enough to fill out the forms required to apply for unemployment. What passes for Education today is little more than the pressing of Politically Correct Agenda; striving to avoid offending any all enlightens none.


Yeah, God forbid those foolish natives would be offended when we glorify the subjucation and extermination of thier race. Silly Indians. After all, its is quite obvious that America is super duper awesome and anybody who claims otherwise is pushing a Politicially Correct Agenda. This benighted idea of seeing history objectively - its hogwash. Those wacky liberals....
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 09:21 am
It is ironic that the right is now pushing a method which is at the heart of Marxist dialectic--the interpretation of history in service of ideology.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 09:23 am
I don't see how you get there from what I wrote, ILZ ... but then, we have differing points of view, and, apparently, particularly as would apply to objectivity.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 09:28 am
I find it odd to observe the intensity of the criticism offered here, and in other forums, to the simple and rather unremarkable proposition that Western Civilization, as we know it, has (so far) been the most successful organization of human thought and action yet observed, and therefore is deserving of special emphasis in our studies. It is the primary basis for our oun shared cultures, and as such, is the proper context for our critical examinations of other systems. Nothing here requires the presumption that Western Civilization is the best of all possibilities or even the best that has ever existed: merely that currently it is the most successful and it is our own.

It is easy to rattle off a long list of the many bad things done in the course of Western Civilization. However these things are a product of human nature and are not the creation of any particular civilization. Wars of extermination existed among the native tribes of North and South America, just as they did among the tribes of Europe. The Mongol hordes were not a product of Western Civilization.
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 09:32 am
timberlandko wrote:
I don't see how you get there from what I wrote, ILZ ... but then, we have differing points of view, and, apparently, particularly as would apply to objectivity.


I may have misintrepreted your statement. I thought you were arguing that recent attempts to make the history curriculum more well-rounded are ruining the education system; pushing a Politically Correct Agenda to avoid offending people. This inference, in part, was based on past experiance with you. If I was wrong, then by all means, fill me in.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 09:51 am
I'm all in favor of promoting an objective and balanced approach to teaching ... history or anything else, pretty much. I don't, however, see that as what's really happening. Thats not too surprising, though; pendulum swings work that way ... from one over-reaction to the other. I feel the emphasis on "Diversity" is counterproductive; what is needed is a move toward inclusiveness. Despite Political Correctness, at root we are not ethnic-or-ideologic-anything-Americans, we are Americans, a concept submerged by Afro-this and Hispanic-that and Feminist-other and the like. Special Interests serve the interest of none, in the long run. For an example, look at the chaos and dissention attendant upon Canada's bilingualism ... every few years, Quebec wants a divorce from the rest of the country. That's ridiculous. About the only multi-lingual nations I can think of that function well are Belgium and Switzerland, and that, IMO, is due to the fact their citizens truly are multi-lingual, not locked into any one or another language or cultural heritage. If anything, that's the way we should go.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 10:02 am
timberlandko wrote:
About the only multi-lingual nations I can think of that function well are Belgium and Switzerland, and that, IMO, is due to the fact their citizens truly are multi-lingual, not locked into any one or another language or cultural heritage. If anything, that's the way we should go.


I have some sincere doubts about your remark re Belgium - at least to my own experiences and what we can read here (see:Vlaams Blok (Flemish Block, xenophopian and separatist), nearly the biggest party now there, . :wink:
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 10:06 am
You're probably right, Walter ... you have a closer and more current appreciation of the situation there. I haven't been in that neighborhood in over 20 years. I do seem to recall a certain stubborness among those who considered themselves Walloons. :wink:
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 10:37 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Scrat wrote:
I was taught that this is the best nation in the world, and I think that was the right thing to teach a kid in America. I also expect a kid in France to be taught that France is the best nation in the world. That's just my opinion. You are welcome to disagree. Very Happy


My parents where taught such at their school time as well.

I do know abit about a history lessons (and history) in France (and the UK), besides in my own country.

As far as my experience is, you are wrong, Scrat.
(No doubt, the focus in history classes in each country is on the own history.)

That French schools might not do what I expect they would do might disappoint me but I don't think it makes me "wrong".

In all candor I question whether your perception is accurate. I've been to France on several occasions, and the people there are positively snobbish about how fabulous it is to be French and how superior France is to the rest of the world and the French are to other people. Did the way they were taught their history in school have something to do with this? I suspect it did. Of course, I could be wrong. I located the Website for France's education ministry, but it is (of course) entirely in French, so I can't read what their stance might be on such things. (Sigh...) I do believe that you have related your experience and impression honestly, and appreciate your sharing it, I just have a hunch that you are wrong. But please be assured that I don't discard your input out of hand.

But anyhow, my point was more about what I think is normal, reasonable, and proper for nations to do than about what they may or may not actually be doing. Very Happy
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 11:22 am
Scrat wrote:
I've been to France on several occasions, and the people there are positively snobbish about how fabulous it is to be French and how superior France is to the rest of the world and the French are to other people. Did the way they were taught their history in school have something to do with this? I suspect it did. Of course, I could be wrong. I located the Website for France's education ministry, but it is (of course) entirely in French, so I can't read what their stance might be on such things. (Sigh...)


So you just guessed, what people were talking?

As said, I've only got personal experiences, too, from my visits there - as a tourist, in schools and at universities.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 11:25 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Scrat wrote:
I've been to France on several occasions, and the people there are positively snobbish about how fabulous it is to be French and how superior France is to the rest of the world and the French are to other people. Did the way they were taught their history in school have something to do with this? I suspect it did. Of course, I could be wrong. I located the Website for France's education ministry, but it is (of course) entirely in French, so I can't read what their stance might be on such things. (Sigh...)


So you just guessed, what people were talking?

As said, I've only got personal experiences, too, from my visits there - as a tourist, in schools and at universities.

Well, silly me... your personal experience trumps mine, of course. Rolling Eyes
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 11:48 am
I'd have to agree with you about that, Scrat, as much as it always pains me to agree with you--Walter's "eyes-wide-open" habits of observation, combined with considerably more experience certainly justify your conclusion that his personal experience trumps yours.

Send me the link for the Froggy Education Ministry page, i'll translate if for you.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2004 12:20 pm
Or to me, I'm at home with the flu today. Sad
Strange, that after all that yammering about how you are proud to be "muurcun" and your complaints about the French, to find out you don't read or speak French..... That certainly doesn't invalidate your opinions further, now does it? Wink
In response to Celi's (much) earlier post, I think the flag waving xenophobia that is "American patriotism," is something we inherited from the 19th century colonial powers. UNlike England, or France, or Spain, we have never had to suffer the ignominy of watching our power collapse, and so have not learned the lesson such hubris teaches.
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