For Christians - why is the Universe so big?

Frank - no problem

Damn but you remind me of some Hollywood guy (I'm thinking Nautical movies)???

I am very wary of infinities.

"A mathematical dilemma

When Einstein proposed that the speed of light is constant for all observers, he introduced a conundrum. How could different observers measure the same speed for light when the observers themselves were moving at different speeds? Speed is a measure of distance divided by time (for example, kilometers per hour or miles per hour). Einstein realized that for speed to remain constant, intervals of time and distance would have to change in a way that kept their ratio exactly the same"

Locating the Timekeeping Centers of the Brain

Timing is everything. It comes into play when making split-second decisions like knowing when to stop at a red light, catch a ball or modulate a rhythm when playing the piano.

Researchers Stephen M. Rao, PhD, of the Medical College of Wisconsin, Deborah Harrington, MD, of the Veterans Affairs Medical Center in Albuquerque, and Andrew R. Mayer, also of the Medical College, have now identified the areas in the brain that are responsible for perceiving the passage of time in order to carry out critical everyday functions.

One thing I do note is we don't seem to have too many Christians posting here /shrug

Also of concern - folk who want to balance a creationist God vs some other plausible creation factor allowing intelligent life all have to fall for an infinite something in their equations, either:

1) Strong anthrophic principle (which I see as a possible variant within M-Theory) = infinite Universes

2) Bouncing Universes (Big Bang <-> Big Crunch) = infinite time -> infinite Universes

3) God = infinite power / focus

Think of two cones, joined at the large end ... now place yourself in the middle of the connection. Time flows toward you from a point of perception ... visualized as the pointy end of the cone (foci), is sensed and translated instantly, either as it is passed through you or vice versa ... could be either, not sure of the ramifications of one over the other. It is only through that passage .... a second becomes a second ..... time is born .... orrrrrrr .... revisited, then flows off toward another point of perception as sensed.
The questioned that is begged? How many points of perception can a tri dimensional brain process .... simultaneously?

Gelisgesti wrote:

Think of two cones, joined at the large end ... now place yourself in the middle of the connection. Time flows toward you from a point of perception ... visualized as the pointy end of the cone (foci), is sensed and translated instantly, either as it is passed through you or vice versa ... could be either, not sure of the ramifications of one over the other. It is only through that passage .... a second becomes a second ..... time is born .... orrrrrrr .... revisited, then flows off toward another point of perception as sensed.
The questioned that is begged? How many points of perception can a tri dimensional brain process .... simultaneously?

Brains don't perceive time as a point, but more like a wave. We are standing on the crest and there is no exact point where you can say that our sense of the "present" starts or stops. It can be a microsecond, a few seconds, or even hours, days, or years depending on context. (The "present" in geological terms can span millions of years.)

(The "present" in geological terms can span millions of years.)

g__day wrote:

One thing I do note is we don't seem to have too many Christians posting here /shrug

One thing that I have noticed is that few Christians have sufficient scientific knowledge to post in these discussions. Perhaps the logical thinking typical of scientists precludes the acceptance of illogical beliefs that is required of Christians.

Quote:

Also of concern - folk who want to balance a creationist God vs some other plausible creation factor allowing intelligent life all have to fall for an infinite something in their equations, either:

1) Strong anthrophic principle (which I see as a possible variant within M-Theory) = infinite Universes

2) Bouncing Universes (Big Bang <-> Big Crunch) = infinite time -> infinite Universes

3) God = infinite power / focus

There are other possibilities. My favorite is based on the Copenhagan Interpretation of quantum mechanics in which an observer is necessary to collapse the wave function. Out all possible states of the universe, only those in which cosmological constants had values such that observers could exist could ever become "real."

Imagine an infinite number of possibilities, one of which has a chain of quantum events which eventually lead to the evolution of conscious human beings. The first possibility of observation collapses the entire 13-billion-year-long chain of quantum events like a row of dominos and this universe becomes "real."

3. The mind of God actually does exist and God actually did select our Specific Universe with its variables so well tuned to allow for our existence and henceforth God used science - not magic - to direct our existence and development.

Terry wrote:

g__day wrote:

One thing I do note is we don't seem to have too many Christians posting here /shrug

One thing that I have noticed is that few Christians have sufficient scientific knowledge to post in these discussions. Perhaps the logical thinking typical of scientists precludes the acceptance of illogical beliefs that is required of Christians.

From what i have read of hawkings he leans greatly towards the belief of God that I hold. I was very comforted when I read 'A Brief History of Time' as it reinforced many of my beliefs.

however I will agree with you that many christians are very subjective - but sadly thats how some people must live. If they stray their minds cannot handle it and they become destructive. Thats stepping into psychology though.

when someone who had only half knowledge of the anthropic laws explained them to me I was dismayed greatly that someone could feel that would be a possible explanation.. lol of course me being me I went and checked a book out about it and read that the anthropic principles are great explanations of possibilities.

g__day wrote:

3. The mind of God actually does exist and God actually did select our Specific Universe with its variables so well tuned to allow for our existence and henceforth God used science - not magic - to direct our existence and development.

right now I am just a dilettant of physics, however, I plan on eventually working to achieve a PHD in philosophy and physics. Also i am a devoute Christian. I believe so firmly in God and Christ because of my hours of discussion, reading and thought about just this very topic about science and theology. Theological physics is the only possibility I can forsee as being the explanation which breaks the G.U.T. which would describe the 'actual' laws of the universe and what ever lies beyond.

I have been lead to this by the process of thought everyone has gone through where did we come from - that leads inevitably to the 'well what created that - what did that come from' chain all the way till you must say 'I dont know' or ' I cannot answer that' and at that point when I see such perfection such "fine tuned" laws and universe that you spoke of I see an awesome intellegence was involved in its Creation.

visavis

Not magic is in my book science. And Science is the way it is for reasons we can't fully understand yet - as Frank says!

Personally I think Science and Faith can tune each other and work out where to strengthen each other and where to battle - rather than just be irrationality at each others throats all over the place.

For all we know and suspect we still can't rule out we one day in the future will become smart enough to loop time and invent ourselves - at a quantum level. Although this seems ridiculous - our science isn't advanced enough to show this isn't plausible.

Morning Frank, stop me iff you've heard this one ...
What do you get if you cross an agnostic, an insomniac, and a dyslexic?







Ans

A man that stays up all night wondering if there is a dog