For Christians - why is the Universe so big?

The only major challenge I had with the Big Bang was why a sudden appearance of a singularity with 10^80 Joules of energy should explode at all rather than be crushed like the biggest, baddest blackhole ever! The Gravity would have been enormous and should have predated its creation slightly to keep it locked in.

But we theorise the very reverse happened - inflation when spacetime itself started exploded (more technically prcecise - unfolded) at 50,000 times the speed of light.

You have to remember that in our realitity at leat gravity is the curvature of spacetime. Prior to the big bang space didn't exist, so spacetime didn't exist so it couldn't be curved - hence not only no gravity but a negative vaccuum energy to pull you apart even faster than the speed of light. Also prior to the big bang our reality's (universe's) version of time didn't exist in our model (though virtual or X time did). The Big bang changes the X time factor to our co-joined spacetime phenonomia.

A membrane / membrane interaction in the quantum foam could theoretically easily bubble forth 10 ^ 80 joules of energy - so here our reality neatly is huh?

try seeing our 'cosmic egg' as the opposite side of a corresponding 'black hole' on the 'inverse' side of the universe!

big BANG! , eh

seriously G-day;

in my universe the big bang is a continuous process streaming forth from the inverse of a black hole on the other side of 'spacetime'. That is why we have insufficient dark matter; it hasn't 'happened' yet.
This is a continuing process which will eventually, after all the mass in the universe has 'occurred', reverse itself, courtesy of gravity (whatever that is) and shrink neatly into a massive black hole, creating a mirror big bang phenomenon on the other side.

Your description is fine, just a little 'Janus' tweak required!

Is time a dynamic .... or is it inert?

I don't think we have the right theoretically framework to deeply explore time yet as opposed to spacetime.

BoGoWo - theoretical physics tends to say the Universe's fate will to grow forever and become very dark and cold. Observations show the expansion of the viewable universe is accelerating. A gravitationally bound Universe should be constantly slowing - not speeding up in the lat billion years.

Too theoretcial physics hasn't modelled a opposite of a black whole (a white something?) yet. At best membrane theory will allow a quantum interaction / resonance of two or more distinct membrane to create a new membrance - possibly via a big bang mechanism.

All very theoretically at the moment!

Oh sorry for the resurection but I got the answer from the advanced physics forums awhile ago.

Inflation occured rather than the ulitimate crush at the first moments of creation becuase the energy densities where so high the four forces - including gravity didn't exist above 10 ^19 Giga electron Volts. At this average energy density only one force - quantum gravity existed and this allowed creation to burst forth rather than be imploded. (I still must find out why!)

Once things expanded they cooled considerable until the forces seperated, first gravity from electronuclear, then elctron magnetism broke away at 10 ^ 13 GeV then strong and weak nuclear forces broke apart at 120 GeV, bringing us to the era of relativistic physics!

But now I must study why quantum gravity as a single force might have allowed inflation!

Perhaps dark energy separated out at a higher energy level than quantum gravity and could drive inflation until the universe cooled enough for gravity to take over.

Maybe, but you need a framework to describe dark energy - its carriers, its properties etc - what type of boson is it?

The seperation of the four forces went like this by the way:

Perhaps it could be argued that this is yet another sort of "test of faith." That is, if the universe were small, just big enough for earth & inhabitants, it might be a bit "easier" to believe in a simple Abrahamic religion and believe we are the center of existence and its all about us getting to "heaven."

It might be argued that by making the universe so limitless, he is allowing us a sort of limitless choice as to beliefs. Yet, we must still use free will and make the right choices as to belief. Things might be actually a bit more cut & dried if the universe were quite small, and this might make a simple faith easier.

I concur with this viewpoint; God gives us free will, saying faith is important.

You can hardly have free will and faith in a small world where God lives in the house next door and comes to BBQs each afternoon. Perhaps the unknowns and how we deal with them are very important.

Still it seems 60% of the Universe is casually disconnected under relativity - in simpler terms, most of the Universe is so far away from itself it can never affect itself. Is that getting over-big, like massive over-kill? Perhaps we'll never know, perhaps to allow life to exist for awhile physics dictates that you really must have to provide a super-sized Universe else the physical constants don't work out right.

Seems as if knowledge of something would make that thing relative to the posessor of said knowledge. Therefore all that is, is constantly being revealed or .... born, hence creating a flow.... aka ....time.

I agree, but I don't immediately see the relevance of this viewpoint to the topic anymore than someone saying "life is good". Whilst true, where are you going with with your observation?

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Point taken. The only problem I have with this view is that, assuming an All-powerful God, It would create the very laws of physics also. I can't imagine an all powerful God that is constrained by laws of physics. God created the physics. What kind of God would create a setup where there is a lot of waste involved.

On the one hand, it does seem like massive overkill. However, maybe not quite that simple. Why the heck are there little unknown pebble asteroids out a million light years away that we will never know about? Seems like such a waste. Won't remotely affect us in any way. Yet, consider this, for example: 500 years ago if you told someone that little unseen microscopic things could make you sick and kill you, they would think you are crazy. Yet, now we know...

One example: we are constantly walking around in different fields of electromagnetic activity. Gravity affects electromagnetics. Our brains use electric impulses to operate. I wouldn't be shocked if in a few thousand years it is discovered that gravitational forces and such out there affect our brains, thus our thinking...a bit. Yes this seems a bit crazy. But so did "unseen small things causing diseases" 500 years ago.

Could it be some of this supposedly "overkill" stuff out there actually is affecting us, but we are currently unaware of it?

I was just rambling .... actually your post caused me to ponder consciousness and of how consciousness is relevant to my psyche. After all it is from this viewpoint that 'relative' is relative .... your relativity may slightly vary from the psyche standing next to you. The process continues gradually congregating into an awareness that you are ... this awareness solidifies into knowledge of what you are .... consciousness .... it is this process that in time becomes time, or what we percieve as such.

I think.

Again, just rambling

When I try and solve (x-1)(x+1)(x-3)(x+3) = 0 there are certain parameters that just work, the laws of mathematics make it so - it is consistent with how maths works. Now I am better than average at maths, but even if I was the best in the world I couldn't alter those fundamental laws. I could create many new fields, but still these rules about what a zero is and does would apply across all domains.

Maybe God worked in with the same process. Maybe some list of ingridents just work better than others, less messing around or fudging is needed. If an omlete calls for 5 eggs, why try and invent 10 half eggs - take the path of least resistance. So to every non believer of evolution who says god simply planted evidence of dinosaurs in the rocks 5 thousand years ago, but fooled carbon and other dating methods I say poo.

Quite a nice word poo!

Perhaps space is so big to spark our sense of wonderment and improve our ever lacking humility? The idea that hidden things may affect us is always a tantalising one to consider - it keeps us sharp!

No matter how skilled you become you will not be able to quantify egg + sperm = animated life that is capable of reproducing and that possesses sentiency. If one did possess that algorithm how many steps into it do we go to be certain we arrive at our particluar station in the formulae .... assuming of course that we are not at the apex of our journey and that the probabilty that, as in Einstein's unified field, there is one master equation. A fossile would show us the trail of our jourmey but since it is not probable that we have come to the end of our path... then infinity stretches out ahead as well as behind.
Extra medium mentioned 'magnetism' and the fact that we live inside a magnetic field.... MRI, a medical procedure that can produce a3d picture of our bodies does so by utilizing the magnetic qualities of the oxygen molecule. Magnetic fields within magnetic fields.... Worlds within worlds ..... we are but a chapter and until we determine what laws pertain to us we should not apply any.... ie: fire destroys flesh but are we more than flesh

How Frank's pasta fagioli wound up in this thread, I don't know--but it won a heralded recipe contest and there's a nip in the air, finally. I shall cook it tonight and report back.

It looks fabulous. I can almost smell it.

Just a thought...

I believe that God created the universe and that He has always existed.

Anyway, did it ever occur to you that all of the stars and everything else in the whole universe was made just to show the vastness and power of God? think about it. there might not be a practical purpose. God might have created the universe so that one guy could step out onto his back porch at night, look at the stars and say, "wow. that didn't happen by chance." long story made short, he might come to christ by looking at the stars.

Frankly I'm offended on behalf of the stars.

That a man could think the entire universe was put there just for his benefit astounds me.

What does this guy think might be the purpose of the stars he can't see? (ie the vast majority of stars)

He might come to christ by looking at the stars...if he's prone to flights of ridiculous fancy...and prone to jumping to outlandish conclusions....and assuming that complexity can't exist without a greater complexity to explain it (while needing no explanation as to what created that creator).

He would far more likely come to christ by looking at the stars if knew about christ beforehand...and didn't really have much of an interest in the stars themselves.