Why There Cannot Be Peace Between Israel and the Palestinians

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

How is Palestinians killing women and children of Israel have anything to do with justifying putting down the Warsaw upraising as the there seems off hands zero connections or similarity unless the Poles was killing German women and children as the Palestinians happen to be doing?

Quote:

Side note such behaviors do not win conflicts and never have won conflicts and all it had does is to make sure that the hammer come down on the people who are outgun, as the other side with the heavy weapons begin to look at your people as not human but as mad dogs instead.

Could you clarify this? ^^^
I took it to mean that in order to win a fight or conflict, by your standards, you have to bring the "hammer" down on people who are "outgun"-ed to make your rival "look at your people as not humans but as mad dogs?"
That pretty much sums up the Warsaw ghetto uprising that was put down. The resistance was inhumanely put down with bigger guns, and I'm sure the Jews and Polish living in the ghettos saw the Nazi's as more abominable than mad dogs. Now say, hypothetically, the resistance movement did kill a few German women and children, does that give you the right to raze an entire population including their women and children connected to the resistance movement by their nationality, and commit the acts the Nazi's did to the inhabitants of Warsaw ghetto?
Is that what you believe?

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@RST,

Sorry the Poles once more was not using the tools of terror that the Palestinians seems to love to do so there is no one to one relationship between the Poles who we have ever reason to respect and the Palestinians who methods of fightings condemn them and their causes on it face.

A people who go out of their way to target the killing of women and children are not a people who deserve any respect or any consideration no matter what the others factors happen to be in the conflict.

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@BillRM,

Bill What do you think about Rush Limbaugh? Are you a republican?

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@reasoning logic,

Quote:

Bill What do you think about Rush Limbaugh? Are you a republican?

I am an atheist and a democrat and not a supporter of good old Rush to said the least having voted for Obama in both elections.

If you think that democrats as a group support acts of terror in the Middle East or anywhere else you are dead wrong.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

I am an atheist

I know this.

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and a democrat and not a supporter of good old Rush to said the least having voted for Obama in both elections.

This I did not know.

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If you think that democrats as a group support acts of terror in the Middle East or anywhere else you are dead wrong

I am not sure where you came up with this idea that I might think democrats as a group support acts of terror in the Middle East or anywhere else, but I do find it odd that you are a democrat. I am a student of human behavior and I do find you to be an interesting subject.

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@reasoning logic,

Quote:

I do find it odd that you are a democrat

OH? and why is that...................?

I am a card carrying ACLU and EFF member and during the period of the drive for the ERA I was a member of NOW and only quit when I could not get the local branch help for a lady being beaten up by her husband.

In the late 1960s early 70s as a very young man I told a Federal judge in open court that I could not serve on a marijuana case jury as I did not believe in those laws and would not convict anyone under them.

Lord did the good judge turn red and for a second I had a mental picture of him dying of a heart attack and my picture and name in the paper as the cause of the good judge death.

Yes I am a democrat....................with complete contempt for the GOP party as it exist now at least.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

OH? and why is that...................?

No good reason at all. I just thought that someone as educated as you and being a Democrat might be more empathic and see a value in sociology but I do realize that is the naive realist in me.

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@reasoning logic,

Quote:

Democrat might be more empathic and see a value in sociology but I do realize that is the naive realist in me.

Sorry I have the mindset of an engineer long before I got my degree and emotional appeals that fly in the face of logic is not the means of winning my support.

My empathic is also lacking for a people who turn their young men and women into suicide bombers even going so far as to have children shows promoting the idea.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

My empathic is also lacking for a people who turn their young men and women into suicide bombers even going so far as to have children shows promoting the idea.

What did you think about the Christians teaching their young children soldiers in the sociology video that I shared with you?

You may have lost your religion if you ever had one but the ideology or sociological currents are still alive in both you and me. You would not understand what I am saying unless you took some time to study it.

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@reasoning logic,

Quote:

You may have lost your religion if you ever had one but the ideology or sociological currents are still alive in both you and me

I lost my religion when the bible stories did not make any sense to me at around the age of ten.

I still can remember the shock of hearing the story of the chief agent of an all knowing and all powerful god rebelling and taking half the angels in heaven with him.

A copy of Mr. Paine Age of Reason that I got my hand on at a fairly young age let me know that I was not alone in thinking the whole bible was a collection of illogical stories.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

I lost my religion when the bible stories did not make any sense to me at around the age of ten.

Do you think that you have been able to lose the sociological currents that you have been caught up in as well?

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@reasoning logic,

Quote:

Do you think that you have been able to lose the sociological currents that you have been caught up in as well?

Do you mean by that am I a member of the society I was born into of course I am however that fact does not imprison my mind any more then it did imprison Jefferson or Paine or Franklin all born in a must more restricted era that I was lucky to had been born into.

We do not need to be control by our culture and I can remember in the middle of the anti-communist 1950s shocking my poor patriot father and WW2 vet by telling him after viewing a hearing on TV of the house un-american activities committee that the only thing un-american was the committee itself.

To sum up we are not force to accept the indoctrination of the society we was born into.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

To sum up we are not force to accept the indoctrination of the society we was born into.

You have a lot to learn grasshopper and the only way you will learn is to search it out for yourself. Just like the rest of us have to but if you think that you may have more traits of the right stuff than the rest of us do, you may "not" find it to be challenging.

The RIGHT Stuff

http://www.ocdonline.com/articlephillipson6.php

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@RST,

RST wrote:

Win conflicts? If you mean "flattening gaza" how is your idea any better than mine to resolve the conflict. If you can justify that, you would just as easily justify the Nazi's response to the Warsaw Ghetto uprising.

The Nazis were killing innocent people who were doing them no harm.

The Israelis are only defending themselves from people who insist on trying to murder them.

RST wrote:

Whenever one of the sides decides to blame the entire conflict on the other without taking a shred of responsibility for their own role, then that exactly is what drives the conflict to continue.

No, what drives the conflict to continue is the Palestinians' insistence on murdering civilians every chance they get.

RST wrote:

By your idea of "winning," this war isn't going to come to any conclusion after a century or more of blood shed.

The Palestinians are being walled off from the territory that Israel will annex.

Rocket fire can be retaliated against through the use of strong airstrikes.

Things are under control.

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@Enzo,

Enzo wrote:

I think Palestine would have more of an effect in promulgating their displeasure and attaining a favorable result to their liking if their protestation were synonymous to Gandhi's peaceful protests.

No kidding. If the Palestinians had been peaceful, they'd have had a state based on 1967 borders a long time ago.

Enzo wrote:

That isn't to say Israel is by anyway justified in their own efforts to unnecessarily propagate conflict.

All Israel is doing is defending themselves when the Palestinians try to murder civilians.

That is 100% justified.

Enzo wrote:

I predict that this conflict won't reach a conclusion any time soon, the way that both these parties are conducting with each other.

Depends. The conflict may well continue in name, with waves of Palestinian murderers frothing just behind the Separation Fence. But they will remain safely behind the Separation Fence where they cannot do anyone any harm.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

The present leadership of the Palestinian Authority has pursued non-violent approaches for some time now.

Not quite. Pursuing non-violence would also mean forcing Hamas to stop trying to murder people.

And even then, they are doing it wrong.

If there were to be serious negotiations, the first thing that has to happen (after a cessation of violence) is for the entire world to unequivocally state that Israel's offer from 2000-2001 was reasonable and just. The Israelis aren't going to want to waste a lot of energy negotiating if the only thing they will get out of it is people lying about what they offered. So if the Palestinians want Israel to try again, they need to have everyone stop lying and start telling the truth.

Next thing the Palestinians would need to do is not abrogate the Oslo Accords (as negotiations will depend on the existence of the Oslo Accords). This will now require the use of a reliable time machine, as the UN and the Palestinians have already killed the Oslo Accords.

And finally, the Palestinians will have to actually show up at the negotiations.

InfraBlue wrote:

The results haven't been so promising seeing as how Israel has continued to expand and build settlements in land that's been designated for a Palestinian state,

Nonsense. That land has not been designated anything.

And if the Palestinians wanted Israel to halt settlement construction, the way to do it was to show up at the negotiating table and bargain for it.

Since the Palestinians have made no such deal with Israel, of course Israel is going to keep building settlements.

InfraBlue wrote:

and is even using the PA's non-violent approaches, e.g. its UN recognition of non-member status, as a pretext for the former's continued settlement expansion and building.

The Palestinians and the UN just nullified the Oslo Accords and put a permanent end to the peace process.

You might want to distinguish "non-violent moves that resolve the dispute" from "non-violent moves that make it impossible to resolve the dispute".

Now that the Oslo Accords are dead and negotiations are a thing of the past, the name of the game is "take what you can unilaterally". Israel is merely playing by the new rules that the Palestinians created.

InfraBlue wrote:

On the other hand, the leadership of Hamas, who control the Gaza Strip, resorted to violence to get Israel to loosen its stifling blockade there. In regard to this conflict, violence has proven to be a more effective impetus for change in the status quo, unfortunately.

Note the reality that the blockade is not loosened.

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@RST,

RST wrote:

BillRM wrote:
RST wrote:
Nazi's response to the Warsaw Ghetto uprising.

Oh the Poles were killing German women and children?

Somehow I missed that little fact.............

You're missing more than just a "little fact," you're missing a brain.
Tell me, in your broken English, how German women and children are relevant to Nazi's response to the Warsaw Ghetto uprising?

Failure to understand a point does not justify falsely accusing other people of not being smart.

Since Israel is only defending themselves from people who insist on murdering civilians, if your Nazi comparison were to be at all valid, the Nazis would also have to be defending themselves from people who insisted on murdering them.

But in reality, the Nazis were killing people who never did anyone any harm.

BillRM was merely pointing out that reality.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Mahmoud Abbas has made clear that armed resistance is a right and an option in their struggle.

The downside to that (from the Palestinian perspective at least) is that the borders of the Palestinian state will be defined as "whatever they can seize from Israel by force".

In other words, Israel gets to annex everything west of the Separation fence.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

RST wrote:
BillRM wrote:
RST wrote:
Nazi's response to the Warsaw Ghetto uprising.

Oh the Poles were killing German women and children?

Somehow I missed that little fact.............

You're missing more than just a "little fact," you're missing a brain.
Tell me, in your broken English, how German women and children are relevant to Nazi's response to the Warsaw Ghetto uprising?

Failure to understand a point does not justify falsely accusing other people of not being smart.

Since Israel is only defending themselves from people who insist on murdering civilians, if your Nazi comparison were to be at all valid, the Nazis would also have to be defending themselves from people who insisted on murdering them.

But in reality, the Nazis were killing people who never did anyone any harm.

BillRM was merely pointing out that reality.

You're totally taking this out of the context of the conversation. I was focusing on the Nazi retaliation to the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. BillRM, therefore was not pointing out the reality but making a failed attempt in trying to justify a hypothetical scenario (behind his idea of killing innocent women and children) where retaliation to the Warsaw Ghetto uprising could be potentially justifiable.

1 Reply

@RST,

Quote:

where retaliation to the Warsaw Ghetto uprising could be potentially justifiable.

Please take note that the Palestinians by target killing infants in their mother arms with their suicide bombings in public places is no better an action than an SS soldier bayoneting an infant in Warsaw and holding the infant body out a window.

In fact a case could be make that the Nazis had more of a conscious over Warsaw then the Palestinians over their killings as if memory serve me correctly the German commander who was in charge of dealing with the uprising was court martial and hung for his actions during the uprising by the German military.

1 Reply

Why There Cannot Be Peace Between Israel and the Palestinians

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