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Why There Cannot Be Peace Between Israel and the Palestinians

 
 
JTT
 
  3  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 08:42 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
I'm not sure. Probably not in the past hundred years.


Of course you weren't sure because, besides being an US semen slurper, you were woefully ignorant of your own history. That is due to a propaganda system that blows the doors off the Nazis and that of the old Soviet Union.

But now that you do know, it points up your absolute evil nature. But, I doubt very much that you've plumbed those depths completely.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 06:06 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Of course you weren't sure because, besides being an US semen slurper, you were woefully ignorant of your own history. That is due to a propaganda system that blows the doors off the Nazis and that of the old Soviet Union.


propaganda system? what could be at the root of this propaganda system?

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 06:17 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Why would Japan try to retaliate for an event that Japan was at fault for?

Isn't always the other guys fault when you are at war? Has there ever been a time when the US was at fault?


reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 06:25 pm
@BillRM,
That is certainly an emotional video for many but my question to you is "Do you think that you might walk away with a somewhat different point of view if you studied sociology just a little?
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 09:08 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Why would Japan try to retaliate for an event that Japan was at fault for?


As the semen gushes into your gob, so too does it gush out, Oralboy.

Quote:

Did FDR Provoke Pearl Harbor?
by Patrick J. Buchanan, December 07, 2011

On Dec. 8, 1941, Franklin Roosevelt took the rostrum before a joint session of Congress to ask for a declaration of war on Japan.

A day earlier, at dawn, carrier-based Japanese aircraft had launched a sneak attack devastating the U.S. battle fleet at Pearl Harbor.

Said ex-President Herbert Hoover, Republican statesman of the day, “We have only one job to do now, and that is to defeat Japan.”

But to friends, “the Chief” sent another message: “You and I know that this continuous putting pins in rattlesnakes finally got this country bit.”

Today, 70 years after Pearl Harbor, a remarkable secret history, written from 1943 to 1963, has come to light. It is Hoover’s explanation of what happened before, during and after the world war that may prove yet the death knell of the West.

Edited by historian George Nash, Freedom Betrayed: Herbert Hoover’s History of the Second World War and Its Aftermath is a searing indictment of FDR and the men around him as politicians who lied prodigiously about their desire to keep America out of war, even as they took one deliberate step after another to take us into war.

Yet the book is no polemic. The 50-page run-up to the war in the Pacific uses memoirs and documents from all sides to prove Hoover’s indictment. And perhaps the best way to show the power of this book is the way Hoover does it — chronologically, painstakingly, week by week.

Consider Japan’s situation in the summer of 1941. Bogged down in a four-year war in China she could neither win nor end, having moved into French Indochina, Japan saw herself as near the end of her tether.

Inside the government was a powerful faction led by Prime Minister Prince Fumimaro Konoye that desperately did not want a war with the United States.

The “pro-Anglo-Saxon” camp included the navy, whose officers had fought alongside the U.S. and Royal navies in World War I, while the war party was centered on the army, Gen. Hideki Tojo and Foreign Minister Yosuke Matsuoka, a bitter anti-American.

On July 18, 1941, Konoye ousted Matsuoka, replacing him with the “pro-Anglo-Saxon” Adm. Teijiro Toyoda.

The U.S. response: On July 25, we froze all Japanese assets in the United States, ending all exports and imports, and denying Japan the oil upon which the nation and empire depended.

Stunned, Konoye still pursued his peace policy by winning secret support from the navy and army to meet FDR on the U.S. side of the Pacific to hear and respond to U.S. demands.

U.S. Ambassador Joseph Grew implored Washington not to ignore Konoye’s offer, that the prince had convinced him an agreement could be reached on Japanese withdrawal from Indochina and South and Central China. Out of fear of Mao’s armies and Stalin’s Russia, Tokyo wanted to hold a buffer in North China.

On Aug. 28, Japan’s ambassador in Washington presented FDR a personal letter from Konoye imploring him to meet.

Tokyo begged us to keep Konoye’s offer secret, as the revelation of a Japanese prime minister’s offering to cross the Pacific to talk to an American president could imperil his government.

On Sept. 3, the Konoye letter was leaked to the Herald-Tribune.

On Sept. 6, Konoye met again at a three-hour dinner with Grew to tell him Japan now agreed with the four principles the Americans were demanding as the basis for peace. No response.

On Sept. 29, Grew sent what Hoover describes as a “prayer” to the president not to let this chance for peace pass by.

On Sept. 30, Grew wrote Washington, “Konoye’s warship is ready waiting to take him to Honolulu, Alaska, or anyplace designated by the president.”

No response. On Oct. 16, Konoye’s cabinet fell.

In November, the U.S. intercepted two new offers from Tokyo: a Plan A for an end to the China war and occupation of Indochina and, if that were rejected, a Plan B, a modus vivendi where neither side would make any new move. When presented, these, too, were rejected out of hand.

At a Nov. 25 meeting of FDR’s war council, Secretary of War Henry Stimson’s notes speak of the prevailing consensus: “The question was how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into … firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves.”

“We can wipe the Japanese off the map in three months,” wrote Navy Secretary Frank Knox.

As Grew had predicted, Japan, a “hara-kiri nation,” proved more likely to fling herself into national suicide for honor than to allow herself to be humiliated

Out of the war that arose from the refusal to meet Prince Konoye came scores of thousands of U.S. dead, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, the fall of China to Mao Zedong, U.S. wars in Korea and Vietnam, and the rise of a new arrogant China that shows little respect for the great superpower of yesterday.

http://original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2011/12/06/did-fdr-provoke-pearl-harbor/
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 09:08 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
emotional video for many but my question to you is "Do you think that you might walk away with a somewhat different point of view if you studied sociology just a little?


So sociology going to make it acceptable to drop thousand pounds bombs on a Sunday on the naval base of a nation you were at peace with?

To say nothing of such charming behaviors as the rape of Nanking by their military and the seizing of women in such countries as Korea to be so call comfort women to their solders?

Or the torture and the killing of military prisons in their hands during the conflict?

JTT
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 09:16 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
So sociology going to make it acceptable to drop thousand pounds bombs on a Sunday on the naval base of a nation you were at peace with?


Boy, you assholes certainly are ignorant when it comes to the evil history of the US.

Quote:
To say nothing of such charming behaviors as the rape of Nanking by their military and the seizing of women in such countries as Korea to be so call comfort women to their solders?

Or the torture and the killing of military prisons in their hands during the conflict?


Japan paid for those crimes. The US has never paid for any of its myriad war crimes over the time since its terrorist beginnings.

Note, Bill, that the US didn't make the worst Japanese and German war criminals pay for their crimes. They gave them a free pass in exchange for giving the US the results of all their evil experiments.


georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 09:42 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

That is certainly an emotional video for many but my question to you is "Do you think that you might walk away with a somewhat different point of view if you studied sociology just a little?
How could that possibly help one's understanding?
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 11:29 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Japan paid for those crimes.


Not really.



JTT wrote:
The US has never paid for any of its myriad war crimes over the time since its terrorist beginnings.


No such crimes or terrorism.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Dec, 2012 12:05 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Not really
.

I had not google it lately but the last I recall for example they had not reach a settlement with all the 200,000 plus women survivors that their army force into being so call comfort women during WW2.

Then for political reasons we did not go after the Japanese leadership for their war crimes to anywhere near to the degree we went after the Germans.

0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2012 03:02 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

JTT wrote:
Japan paid for those crimes.


Not really.



JTT wrote:
The US has never paid for any of its myriad war crimes over the time since its terrorist beginnings.


No such crimes or terrorism.


We owe Nam untold billions. In fact, we probably could not repay them for the horrific things we did to that country. For one thing, we killed over three million innocent people in Nam.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2012 03:08 pm
@georgeob1,
"Do you think that you might walk away with a somewhat different point of view if you studied sociology just a little?

Quote:
How could that possibly help one's understanding?


That is a good question and I think the answer would be that it would help you to have a better understanding of where the other person is coming from. I am pretty sure that it would help someone who is empathic and I also think that if a sociopath could look at it logically that it could be a benefit to him/her as well.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2012 03:22 pm
@reasoning logic,
You evidently have a much higher estimate of the value and effects of training in sociology than do I.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2012 03:30 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
So sociology going to make it acceptable to drop thousand pounds bombs on a Sunday on the naval base of a nation you were at peace with?

To say nothing of such charming behaviors as the rape of Nanking by their military and the seizing of women in such countries as Korea to be so call comfort women to their solders?

Or the torture and the killing of military prisons in their hands during the conflict?


If you really have an interest in a better understanding to the questions that you have asked "I would recommend you studying moral philosophy but don't get me wrong because very few people have an interest in doing so and I do not expect you to. I find it sad that there are so many subjects that you can get a PhD "philosophy degree" in but have you ever heard of a PhD in moral philosophy?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2012 03:31 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
You evidently have a much higher estimate of the value and effects of training in sociology than do I.


Could it be because you have a higher degree or education in it?
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2012 03:34 pm
@reasoning logic,
I have a Ph.D. but it's in science, not sociology.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2012 03:37 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I have a Ph.D. but it's in science, not sociology.


Congratulations on your degree, I bet that if you spent 10% of the time that you did on your science degree on sociology that you might walk away with a different impression.

BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2012 05:08 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
If you really have an interest in a better understanding to the questions that you have asked "I would recommend you studying moral philosophy


So if I study the subject of moral philosophy the raping and the killing of a city population , the turning of tens of thousands of women again their will into sex slaves for their army, the killings and the torturing of military prisoners will all be forgiven or even have a need to be forgiven as boys will be boys?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2012 05:20 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
So if I study the subject of moral philosophy the raping and the killing of a city population , the turning of tens of thousands of women again their will into sex slaves for their army, the killings and the torturing of military prisoners will all be forgiven or even have a need to be forgiven as boys will be boys?


Even if you did not study moral philosophy you should know the answer is "no.

What I am try to say is that if you did study it you would see where we all fall short but as I said you will statistically not have an interest in doing so.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2012 05:24 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
What I am try to say is that if you did study it you would see where we all fall short


Yes we are all sinners however there are minor sins and great sins and the Japanese culture of that period lend itself to the greater sins until the West knocked it out of them by applying overwhelming force so their racist picture of themselves as superior beings able to do as they wish to the lessor breeds of mankind could not be maintain.


 

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