@JTT,
JTT wrote:Jon Stewart: Truman's a War Criminal for Bombing Hiroshima
Meh. How many war crimes did Japan get away with during the war?
It was time to end the war and make them surrender.
Quote:Sunday 5 August 2012
Phil Strongman: Hiroshima is a war crime that haunts my family, 67 years on
Why in the world would anyone be haunted by that?
As I said, it was time to end the war and make them surrender.
Quote:The US intentionally prolonged the war for the sole purpose of testing the atomic bomb on real cities
Nope. The war was prolonged by Japan. It was Japan who was refusing to surrender.
It is unlikely that the reason that Japan prolonged the war was for testing the A-bomb on real cities, but you'll have to ask them why they refused to surrender earlier.
Quote:Apologists for these events have used two arguments. These attacks were necessary because Japan wouldn't surrender without them, and because a land invasion against Japan's disciplined troops would have caused 300,000 US casualties or more. The bombing also kept the Soviets out of Japan and helped speed the end of the war.
Actually, they were thinking more along the lines of 300,000 American DEATHS. "Casualties" would have been in the millions had we needed to invade and fight one huge Okinawa campaign across the entire length of Honshu.
Quote:No one objected to the A-Bomb's use in 1945, we are told. No one who knew the score amongst the military high-ups. There was no alternative.
But the argument that no one in the know objected is a fallacy. General Eisenhower opposed it, "Japan was already defeated… dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary."
Context is important. Ike only voiced his opposition in a private conversation with a single person (his boss, Secretary of War Stimson).
This conversation only happened a few days before Hiroshima, when it would have been too late to bring things to a halt even if Ike had been persuasive. The final orders to drop the bombs had already been sent to the field, and Truman had left Potsdam and was on his way back to Washington. He might not have set sail yet (not sure), but it would have required something pretty earthshattering to recall him back to Potsdam.
Stimson responded to Ike's opposition by telling Ike that he didn't know what he was talking about. And then neither Stimson nor Ike spoke to anyone else about Ike's objections for the duration of the war.
So, yes, Ike objected. But there was hardly a huge upswell of opposition from the military brass.
Quote:The Pacific Fleet commander Admiral Nimitz agreed: "The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in their defeat."
Nimitz only said that after the fact. He voiced no objection to dropping the bombs before they were dropped.
In fact, Nimitz is one of the four military leaders who reacted to Nagasaki by pushing Washington to drop the next bomb on Tokyo, for a greater impact on the Japanese decision makers (the others were Spaatz, LeMay, and Twining).
It might also be noted that Nimitz's after-the-fact comment is inaccurate. The first time Japan sued for peace was on August 10. That was after both A-bombs.
Quote:Admiral Leahy, President Truman's Chief of Staff, concurred: the atomic attacks were "of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already ready to surrender…"
Another after-the-fact statement. Leahy voiced no objection to dropping the bombs before they were dropped.
The only thing Leahy had to say about the A-bombs before they were dropped, is: "I'm an expert in explosives, and I can assure you these things will never work."
If Japan was "already ready to surrender", it was pretty foolish of them to needlessly wait until they were nuked twice before they did surrender.
Quote:By the spring of 1945 Japan was faltering. Germany surrendered in May and since April US aircraft had roamed almost at will over Japan. Heavy bombing raids using dozens of B-29s were met with token resistance, and the firebombing of Tokyo had not been seriously opposed. A sea blockade had decimated imports.
During this time Japan put out peace feelers: on 25 July Japan tried to get envoys to Russia, carrying Imperial letters which read, in part: "His Majesty… mindful of the fact that the present war daily brings greater evil and sacrifice of the peoples… desires from his heart that it may be quickly terminated. But as long as England and the US insist upon unconditional surrender the Japanese Empire has no alternative but to fight on… for the honour and existence of the Motherland …"
Japan did not tell us the purpose of their secret envoy to the Soviets, but we guessed that they were probably trying to get the Soviets to help them end the war in a draw so they would not have to surrender.
That guess was correct. The purpose of Japan's secret envoy to the Soviets was indeed an attempt to enlist Soviet aid in ending the war in a draw so that Japan would not have to surrender.
Needless to say, we would not have been interested, even if this "let's call off the war" proposal had been presented to us (it wasn't).
The only way for Japan to end the war was by surrendering.
Quote:These feelers were rebuffed by the US demand for unconditional surrender.
No. They were rebuffed by the Soviets. The US did not receive those contacts, and had nothing to do with them.
It is not entirely accurate though to say they were rebuffed, even by the Soviets. All the Soviets did was keep saying "We're too busy to see you today, please try back again tomorrow."
Furthermore, the US backed away from unconditional surrender when we issued the Potsdam Proclamation (which was an offer of generous surrender conditions).
Quote:But this was unacceptable to Japan, for it could mean that Hirohito –seen as semi-divine – could be put on trial.
Actually, the reason surrender was unacceptable to Japan was the fact that they were trying to end the war in a draw instead of surrendering.
Quote:In mid-1945 The Washington Post kept asking why Truman was demanding unconditional surrender while granting that a condition could swiftly end hostilities.
They must have looked really foolish, given the fact that Japan was not willing to even surrender conditionally at the time.
I am skeptical that they would have printed something so silly.
Quote:the United States News confirmed, days after Hiroshima, that "competent testimony exists to prove that Japan was seeking to surrender many weeks before the atomic bomb…"
The first time Japan sought surrender was August 10, the day after Nagasaki.
Quote:And, of course, post-Nagasaki, the US did grant the condition that the Emperor be left alone. So if America could agree to this in August, why not in July or even June? Why not end the war earlier?
First, the condition in question was NOT that the Emperor be "left alone". Japan was demanding that Hirohito retain
unlimited dictatorial power as Japan's living deity.
Second, the US did NOT grant that condition. We replied by telling them that Hirohito would be subordinate to MacArthur.
Third, Japan was not willing to surrender before August 10. And August 10 was the first time they asked us to guarantee Hirohito's unlimited dictatorial power. We did not grant that condition "earlier" (leaving aside the fact that we weren't willing to grant it ever) because we did not possess a time machine.
Quote:US stubbornness only makes sense if it's seen for what it really is: an excuse to delay peace long enough to test the bomb on real cities. Which is why previous heavy bombing raids had always spared the first atomic targets: Hiroshima, Kokura, Niigata and Kyoto.
What that "US stubbornness" really is, is a work of fiction.
It was Japan who was refusing to surrender. Any delay was due to Japanese stubbornness.