Fiscal Cliff

@JPB,

I have kept records on social security and MediCare payments vs benefits.

No contest; the benefits have far exceeded anything we put into them. The only issue would be how my payments over the years if invested would have returned vs what social security and MediCare benefits are "worth."

Through 2011, my wife and I paid into social security/MediCare $131,413. We received (through 2011) social security benefits of $340,869. Medicare? I couldn't begin to calculate all the benefits. In 2008, I was diagnosed with stage 4 prostate cancer. I received radiation treatments for eight weeks at no cost, and my health today is excellent. I just received a note from my doctor to have a PSA test done. Our MediCare benefits? Priceless.

1 Reply

@JPB,

JPB wrote:

Now, those who saw this coming and did their own saving will fail the means tests being put forth and be excluded from getting a return.

That's one of those things so painful that all you can do is laugh.

By the way, I got snagged by just such thinking on education. State had an assistance program that sounded good enough to let me squeeze through the final year. My God, was the man shocked to hear I was already enrolled. The program wasn't intended for people like me.

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@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

Simpson-Bowles would be an unmitigated disaster. That Juan Williams thinks it's the best option only confirms that fact.

Tell us why, Joe?

My recollection of Simpson-Bowles was that I liked parts of it somewhat more than I disliked other parts. I'm not recalling the details, but it seemed more reasonable at the time than anything else I had heard.

1 Reply

@Miller,

Quote:

Is there some reason why Medicare should pay a physician to tell an individual he or she is obese?

I can think of two without breaking sweat.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Our MediCare benefits? Priceless.

No doubt. To you. What about an unborn baby that has, since Roe Wade, another obstacle to get round on top of the usual ones. i.e. whether his or her Mom and Pop, with advice from relations and experts, has arrived at a convenient time. Or not.

The idea that because an unborn baby has a lot of obstacles to overcome justifies placing another one in its way is totally ridiculous. The idea that anybody saying that is making war on women is evil.

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@H2O MAN,

Do you want to default on the debt built up by Reagan and the 2 Bushes? We are paying 300 billion per year in interest on their debt.

1 Reply

@JPB,

Quote:

The coming of the boomer retirement explosion has been known for years and our elected officials (those chosen by the folks in retirement or the current workforce looking to retire someday) didn't bump up the withholding enough to cover the needs of these masses.

Actually, we did bump up the withholding. The problem is the general fund was so underfunded they just borrowed it from SS and now don't want to have to pay it back.

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@parados,

Is that the best defense of Obama that you can muster?

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@roger,

Any plan that focuses on paying down the debt now (when borrowing costs are minimal) would force us into the same austerity trap that is currently driving Europe into a double-dip recession. And, as Cycloptichorn pointed out, the commission recommended lowering tax rates, with the lost revenues replaced by increased economic activity -- i.e. magic fairy money.

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@parados,

The republicans don't want to pay it back. They're the ones who created the most deficits, and they now want Obama to fix what they created - all while they didn't pay for the two wars they started, and don't want to let the top income earners pay more in taxes.

How stupid is that?

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The government always has stolen SS money. Which is a part of the reason I want them to save money out of other programs, beginning with the military and related programs (such as CIA).

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@edgarblythe,

I agree, but the president and congress are not up to the task.

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@joefromchicago,

Fair enough, but someday all that is going to be exposed to higher rates. I guess we can just hope it magically goes away.

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I like it too, Roger. Not all of it, but I like the shared sacrifice aspect of it. I don't for a second accept that we the voters have been hoodwinked by our elected officials. We've either chosen to remain ignorant or we didn't shout loud enough to be heard. From the summary -

Quote:

We do not pretend to have all the answers. We offer our plan as the starting point for a serious national conversation in which every citizen has an interest and all should have a say. Our leaders have a responsibility to level with Americans about the choices we face, and to enlist the ingenuity and determination of the American people in rising to the challenge.

We believe neither party can fix this problem on its own, and both parties have a responsibility to do their part. The American people are a long way ahead of the political system in recognizing that now is the time to act. We believe that far from penalizing their leaders for making the tough choices, Americans will punish politicians for backing down – and well they should.

In the weeks and months to come, countless advocacy groups and special interests will try mightily through expensive, dramatic, and heart-wrenching media assaults to exempt themselves from shared sacrifice and common purpose. The full report

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

Quote:
The coming of the boomer retirement explosion has been known for years and our elected officials (those chosen by the folks in retirement or the current workforce looking to retire someday) didn't bump up the withholding enough to cover the needs of these masses.

Actually, we did bump up the withholding. The problem is the general fund was so underfunded they just borrowed it from SS and now don't want to have to pay it back.

We didn't bump it up enough to cover the underfunding. They've play kick the can for decades. And, we let them.

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@joefromchicago,

It doesn't focus on paying down the debt at all. It focuses on reducing the deficit.

Quote:

We propose a six-part plan to put our nation back on a path to fiscal health, promote economic growth, and protect the most vulnerable among us. Taken as a whole, the plan will:
• Achieve nearly $4 trillion in deficit reduction through 2020, more than any effort in the nation’s history.
• Reduce the deficit to 2.3% of GDP by 2015 (2.4% excluding Social Security reform), exceeding President’s goal of primary balance (about 3% of GDP).2
• Sharply reduce tax rates, abolish the AMT, and cut backdoor spending in the tax code.
• Cap revenue at 21% of GDP and get spending below 22% and eventually to 21%.
• Ensure lasting Social Security solvency, prevent the projected 22% cuts to come in 2037, reduce elderly poverty, and distribute the burden fairly.
• Stabilize debt by 2014 and reduce debt to 60% of GDP by 2023 and 40% by 2035.

The fact that Paul Ryan voted against it is a big plus in my book.

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@JPB,

correction --- the final bullet pt talks about reducing the debt after stabilizing the deficit.

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@JPB,

JPB wrote:

Pelosi: Democrats are filing a discharge petition, to force a vote on extending the middle income tax cut, on Tuesday at noon.

The Ds are going to push for an up-or-down vote on the Senate bill that extends the Bush tax cuts for all but the top 2%. It will be curious to see if she actually does it and if any Rs will vote for it.

More discussion of Pelosi's discharge petition to force debate of the Senate bill.

Quote:

ChadPergram Pelosi uses discharge petition today to try to force House to debate middle cut tax cut bill. Needs 218 signers. She only has 191 D's now.
3 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

ChadPergram On Pelosi's discharge petition, if successful, Hse can only considers such measures on 2nd & 4th Mondays of each month. Will miss next Mon.
2 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Even if successful, Pelosi's discharge peition on tax cut bill would be ineligible for consideration by House until Dec 24 & only on Dec 24.
50 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite

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@roger,

roger wrote:

Fair enough, but someday all that is going to be exposed to higher rates.

True, but that's when the government should start paying its bills in earnest. Right now, however, the government should be spending money to stimulate the economy. Saving in boom times and spending in bad times is Keynesianism. Saving in bad times and spending in good times is Hooverism.

1 Reply

@JPB,

Curtailing federal spending is the key, regardless of whether it's to cut the deficit or cut the debt. The economy still needs the kind of stimulus that only federal spending can provide. Cutting back now is a terrible policy (and it's a policy shared by both the Ryan plan and Simpson-Bowles).

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