Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 11:01 am
@izzythepush,
You do realize this article is from 1995 don't you?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 03:10 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Sorry, here's something a bit more up to date.

Quote:
Honduras has the world's highest murder rate, according to the UN, with much of the killing linked to drug-trafficking.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-19768043
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 03:19 pm
@izzythepush,
But the enclaves established there by rich conservatives are guarded by ex-special forces guys. Consider it the price of freedom.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 03:21 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Seriously Finn, there is a very good article by Jonathan Friedland in today's paper you might find of interest.

Quote:
What began that night for the Republican party is a process familiar to all who have observed an electoral defeat. Think of it as the political equivalent of the five stages of grief. The ones that trigger the deepest anguish are the serial defeats and the beatings you didn't expect. That's why 1992 was a double trauma for Labour: the Tories had defeated them four times in a row and they had done it on a night Labour felt destined to win.

Whether personal or political, the first stage is denial. That emotion will forever be embodied by the electrifying sight of former Bush guru turned Fox pundit Karl Rove scolding Fox's own number-crunchers for calling the election for Barack Obama, desperately pretending two plus two did not, in fact, equal four. Who knows, perhaps that slice of TV gold will be remembered as the moment when the American right finally gave up its war against maths, science and the reality-based community and realised that even the most zealous ideology must defer eventually to the facts. Perhaps not. Either way, such denial is not unique to today's Republican party. In 1983 Tony Benn famously refused to see Labour's pummelling as a disaster, celebrating instead that 8 million people had voted for socialism.


I found this paragraph the most prescient.

Quote:
After depression – common after a string of losses, such as the five defeats in the popular vote the Republicans have suffered in the last six presidential elections – comes acceptance. In politics, that usually means a recognition that the country you seek to lead has changed and that, therefore, you have to change with it, no matter how painful that process will be.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/09/republicans-five-stages-grief
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 03:24 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I'm not sure the ordinary Hondurans see it that way. Anyone who needs to be guarded by special forces in a gated community in Honduras, should be shot on general principles anyway.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 03:26 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Quote:
After depression – common after a string of losses, such as the five defeats in the popular vote the Republicans have suffered in the last six presidential elections – comes acceptance. In politics, that usually means a recognition that the country you seek to lead has changed and that, therefore, you have to change with it, no matter how painful that process will be.


Man, that joker doesn't know **** about American politics.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 06:09 pm
@izzythepush,
I find I have to repeat myself in these threads as as folks just keep on trying to convince Republicans that in the face of this defeat, the GOP needs to make a dramatic changes in it's underpinnings and it's direction.

To be fair, Republicans try and foist the same shite off on Democrats whenever they suffer a defeat (see their loss of the House in 2010).

The victors never seem content enough to simply crow over their victory, they want to rub the noses of the vanquished in their loss, and then oh so sincerely offer them the well intentioned advice that they must convert themselves to a replica of the victor's party.

The GOP does need to make some changes. First and foremost, they need to develop a connection with a culturally conservative group of immigrants who by virtue of tough Republican talk about illegals, have started to form a connection with the Democrat party that is approaching exclusivity.

They also need to make way for the New Breed of Republicans who are probably not as seasoned as they should be, but have to be promoted to the front ranks.

They also have to put aside their inherent gentlemanly aversion to gutter politics. Now that The Chicago Model has proven to be quite effective, the Democrats are going to embrace it until their next defeat. In 2016, when the Democrats bring a knife to the campaign, the Republicans have to bring a howitzer. Liberal pundits will scream bloody murder about negativity, but 99.9% of them gave Obama a pass with his, so screw them.

As our youth mature and gain wisdom, many of them, unless they've allowed themselves to become entrapped in the low place of government handouts, will become conservatives. It takes time to find the truth and, obviously, many never do.

Bottom line is that the report so the demise of conservatism in America are, yet again, greatly exaggerated.

Major crisises lead to major changes in the thinking of the electorate: the Great Depression, the Vietnam War and 9/11 to name but three. I appreciate that American's liberals believe that Obama will somehow steer us away from a fiscal crisis that will make the Great Recession look like a housewife's unbalanced checkbook, but do they really believe that he has ushered in an era without crisises? I know they thought he could slow the rise of the ocean and heal the earth four years ago, but really, he's now brought us back to the Garden?

Politics, at least in America, is a modern expression of the fact that our genetic reliance on tribalism hasn't been stripped from our DNA. The Obama Tribe didn't even come close to obliterating their rivals across the river.


Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 06:11 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
"They also have to put aside their inherent gentlemanly aversion to gutter politics. "

I just puked in my mouth a little bit...
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 06:36 pm
@Rockhead,
Do you think Finn really believes that, or is he just bullsahitting?
0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  4  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 06:40 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn, you are very well spoken here, but your biases cloud your thinking. Way off base with some of these observations. And yes, the comment about gentlemen made me a little queasy too. This country will never be the conservative oasis you hope for, thank God.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 07:25 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
No, the Republican party needs to get back to its roots of small and efficient government, less government intrusion into privates lives, and self sufficiency.

Their emphasis on social issues such as gay marriage, women's sexual organs and their body, and calling Obama a Kenyan will not make conservatives a living legacy.

Continuing to advocate for no increase in taxes for the wealthy is a losing proposition.

They are totally lost from their past.

America is not about religious' based discrimination against gays and lesbians and minorities.





0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 07:35 pm
@IRFRANK,
IRFRANK wrote:
Finn, you are very well spoken here, but your biases cloud your thinking. Way off base with some of these observations.

I suspect the causation runs in the other direction, from clouded thinking to excessive conservative biases. It's a fairly common phenomenon among Republicans these days. And make no mistake, it's a recent phenomenon. HBO ran a portrait of George H. W. Bush a day or two ago. (The title is "41".) Bush senior makes no bones about being a Republican, and I disagree with him about quite a few things. But nobody can say he's not clearheaded. I wish a figure as reasonable as him could survive Republican primaries these days.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 07:55 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
I wish a figure as reasonable as him could survive Republican primaries these days.


What about Hitler, Thomas? Would a figure as reasonable as him tickle your fancy?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 12:44 am
@Thomas,
But we can thank the Lord for clear thinking liberals without bias.
0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  3  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 10:50 am
@Thomas,
I agree, but what has made this possible? I have the same question about religious folks. Vast majority are good, reasonable people, but they don't seem to exercise any influence.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 10:59 am
@Setanta,
He's a highly respected columnist, and you're an absolute cock womble.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 11:13 am
@izzythepush,
Many "highly respected" conservative columnists are running around sticking pencils in their eyes this week.
Ive been getting a kick at how many are glacially altering their suites from these intractible conservative core beliefs to more acceptance of things ike
"We must find a way to become a bigger tent"

The conservative media is slowly turning their rig around and is making a new playbook staring with "GASP" WE WERE WRONG AND HERES WHY. After that, many things are possible.
Id harte like hell for someone like Christie to have to put on his "Right wing cape and hood" just in order to gain a nomination. If he does, then well be served up another fun fest like this years primary fights among the clown posse of GOPers
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 11:14 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
you're an absolute cock womble.


Set knows that can't be good as do I and all the other folks who aren't familiar with this term. It's interesting how words can come to hold meaning.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 12:03 pm
@izzythepush,
He can be respected and still manage to not have half a clue about American politics.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 12:07 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
He can be respected and still manage to not have half a clue about American politics.


cough cough choke choke Geeze Beth. Is your "man" turning you into another apologist for the number one terrorist group on the planet, the largest collection of war criminals that has ever existed?
0 Replies
 
 

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