Israel Under Attack: Does Anyone Care?

@Advocate,

More than that, Israel is showing by its actions they don't want the Palestinians to exist. What more need be said with action over words?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

More than that, Israel is showing by its actions they don't want the Palestinians to exist. What more need be said with action over words?

You must know that your reply is BS. Israel has begged the Pals to enter into a reasonable agreement. The Pal leaders, however, will never do this. They know that they will be assassinated should they do so.

2 Replies

@Advocate,

Exactly, what is their "reasonable agreement?" Do it our way or the highway? Those highways that are restricted to Palestinian vehicles with green license plates. All while they increase their occupation of the west bank.

0 Replies

@Advocate,

Quote:

You must know that your reply is BS. Israel has begged the Pals to enter into a reasonable agreement.

The Middle East was a much, much more peaceful place before the state of Israel came into existence. The Jews and Arabs in that areas got along together much, much better before the state of Israel came into existence.

Any reasonable analysis of the situation shows that the single most destructive ingredient toward reasonable peace in the area…is the fact that the state of Israel exists there.

Israel and the United States insist that a state that has only existed for about 60 years MUST CONTINUE TO EXIST THERE. The elimination of a state of Israel seems to be the best possible bet for returning to peace and relatively reasonable co-existence among the Arabs and Jews…yet that HAS BEEN TAKEN OFF THE TABLE.

The insistence that Israel MUST BE ALLOWED to exist there is such a huge concession…that there is no way America or Israel can come close to matching.

For you to suggest that Israel is begging for the Arabs to be reasonable is an absurdity, Advocate.

3 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

The Middle East was a much, much more peaceful place before the state of Israel came into existence. The Jews and Arabs in that areas got along together much, much better before the state of Israel came into existence.

Your entire post is right on target but I especially would like to comment on your above statement.

Since modern Israel (1948)has been in existence, there has been nothing but upheaval and turmoil in the area. So many attacks on the Palestinians who have lost their rights. There have been missiles sent into apartment complexes to get one single target, thereby killing many innocents.

Rachel Aliene Corrie was an American peace activist and member of International Solidarity Movement from Olympia, Washington, who was crushed to death by an Israel Defense Forces armored bulldozer in Rafah, in the southern part of the Gaza Strip.

In 2006 there was the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon...the US gave Israel permission to go into Lebanon and root out Hezbollah, destroy the organization if possible.....Hezbollah won that fight. The IDF left in such a hurry they left behind many military weapons and equipment; my campus erupted in great happiness rooting for Hezbollah. The IDF used white phosphorus shells in Lebanon, a chemical that burns the skin. Condoleezza Rice asked the Israeli government not to use this but the IDF said in effect "F*uk you, America!" After the IDF were found scurrying away as fast as their tanks would go, Hezbollah kept sending rockets into Israel for a couple of days afterwards to prove they had chased the IDF out of Lebanon.

Yes, the way I see it, Israel is the cancer eating away at the middle east. Cut it out and the region will begin to heal!

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

If Advocate read your post, I'd like for him to respond - if he has it in him.

Good post, BTW. People like Advocate can't see the crimes committed against other humans; he suffers from myopia. Just looking at the casualty count between the Palestinian vs Jews tells the whole story, but that's in addition to the stealing of Palestinian property where Palestinians don't have any legal rights.

For the most part, Palestinians live in walled in cities like prisons. If that's a democracy, I have a bridge for sale.

0 Replies

@Moment-in-Time,

Moment-in-Time wrote:

BTW, anytime one offers constructive criticism of Israel one is termed an anti-Semite; one is not allowed to voice anti-sentiments against the Zionist nation.

Nonsense. This is a whining charge often seized upon by anti-Semites.

There are any number of critics of Israel in this forum who are not anti-Semetic. CI doesn't happen to be one such critic.

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@Frank Apisa,

From what I can tell, you're no anti-Semite Frank, but you are ridiculous.

First of all Israel doesn't exist at the sufferance of Palestinians.

Secondly, if they had their way Israel would not exist.

It's astonishingly ridiculous to assert that the existence of Israel represents a Palestinian concession.

The Palestinians could have their own nation within the next 24 months if they renounced the Right of Return, recognized the right of a Jewish state to exist, and made a good faith pledge to pursue peaceful co-existence.

If there are factions within the Israeli government that want to essentially maintain the status quo (and I think there are) they will be voted out of power in the face of a truly sincere Palestinian overture for peace.

The majority of the Israeli people don't want to live in a perpetual state of conflict, but they, correctly, don't trust the Palestinian leadership. Why should they? Since you demand an answer to your questions on the subject, maybe you'll answer mine.

There is absolutely no imaginable path to Palestinians taking over Israel, short of a scenario of cataclysmic change. That they cling to this goal is an indication of irrationality.

Imagine if American Indians demanded that the United States turn over control of the nation to them, with the understood intent that one way or the other they would rid the land of all White Eyes.

300 plus years or 60, what is the difference?

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn...I am not an anti-Semite...nor am I even an anti-Israel.

But Israel was established in the wrong place...no matter the fact that Jews have so much connection to that part of the world.

The Arabs...and other Semitic people have as much, if not more, rights to that part of the Middle East.

Jews who want to live in that area should be allowed to live there; Arabs who want to live there should be allowed to live there. NO STATE...Israeli or Palestinian ought to exist there.

It doesn't work.

My guess is that there will NEVER be peace in that area so long as there is a state of Israel there...and any Arabs live there also.

I want to see peace...and I want to see Arabs and Jews live together if not in loving peace...in relative peace. It will not happen the way things are now.

Fight to keep Israel there, but understand that there will never be a true sustained moment of peace...and probably much, much less than that.

The establishment of the Jewish state right there was a terrible mistake...and many people realized that. But...the notion prevailed...and what we have is a monster as a result.

As much as Israel has a right to insist on staying there...the other political and ethnic entities have a right to want to destroy them.

Ultimately...one will destroy the other...and although most would bet that Israel will destroy all the Arabs...I would bet the other possible consequence is what ultimately will be.

I'd hate to see that.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

And you have failed to respond to the substance of my post (which has nothing to do with anti-Semitism) unless you lay claim to this pollyanna crap about "Jews should be able to live there; Arabs should be able to live there."

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Answer my question Frank:

Why should Israelis trust the Palestinian leadership?

You made a big deal about Advocate not answering your question and so I think it's reasonable to expect that you will not dodge one posed to you.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

And you have failed to respond to the substance of my post (which has nothing to do with anti-Semitism) unless you lay claim to this pollyanna crap about "Jews should be able to live there; Arabs should be able to live there."

Yeah, the status quo that will eventually lead to the violent destruction of Israel and the further downfall of the US is a better scenario.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

You have summed it up nicely, Finn. Israel never got the consent of the Palestinians, who then lived there, for the creation of a Jewish state on their lands. Instead Zionists seized the land and, with U.S. support and that of the European countries which were quite content to be rid of their post-war displaced Jewish populations, got the UN to approve their action. This also provided the British cover for just bugging out of the mess in Palestine they created decades earlier.

Palestine had formerly been a peaceful province of the Ottoman Empire that supported large populations of Christians, Jews, Druze and Moslems. The British promised them self-rule in return for their assistance in overthrowing Ottoman rule during WWI, and instead proceeded to occupy the territory as a colony, while their ally, France proceeded to occupy Syria as a Colony.

That might well have made them a bit Xenophobic.

Israel demands that it be accepted by its neighbors (and the world) as a permanently Jewish state, and, in keeping with its demographic insecurities, insists that the Palestinian claims for the right of former Palestinian residents (and their descendants) to their homeland must be abandoned as a precondition for any settlement. That this in effect contradicts the very principle on which Zionists rationalize their own return to Israel, is one of many cruel ironies in this sad affair. Moreover, most nations in this world involve more than one identifiable ethnic/cultural/religious group. However only Israel explicitly demands permanent rule by just one of them.

Now the West bank is a giant ghetto surrounded by a high wall, while Israel controls (and severely limits ) the economic activity and access of its residents to the outside world, controls its water supply, electricity and the air space above it, and comfortably limits its own non-Jewish population to a manageable second class minority. Take away the trains and the death camps and this is fairly close to the Nazi solution for its Jews - and this is the most tragic irony of them all..

The European Jews didn't consent to this or give up their lives and identities. Why should the Palestinians do so ?

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5288137)
And you have failed to respond to the substance of my post (which has nothing to do with anti-Semitism) unless you lay claim to this pollyanna crap about "Jews should be able to live there; Arabs should be able to live there."

I thought I did respond to the substance of your post...but I will check out your following post and try to do better.

I MOST ASSUREDLY do subscribe to the notion that Jews and Arabs should be able to live in the Middle East. They have done so for centuries...and have done so RELATIVELY peacefully until the mid-1940's.

What do you see about that as "Pollyanna crap?"

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5288137)
Answer my question Frank:

Why should Israelis trust the Palestinian leadership?

I don't think any nation's leadership should "trust" any other nation's leadership...so obviously I don't think the Israeli leadership...or the Israeli people...should trust the Palestinian leadership.

I definitely do not think the Palestinian leadership (such as it is)...or the Palestinians...should trust the Israeli leadership. (I don't think the United States should trust the Israeli leadership either!)

I think the creation of the state of Israel where it is...IS A HUGE MISTAKE...and is the primary source of the trouble that is occurring there.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Finn...if there is any part of what I just wrote in reply to your question that you disagree with...please tell me what it is...and why you disagree with it.

I'd like to discuss it further.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:

You must know that your reply is BS. Israel has begged the Pals to enter into a reasonable agreement.

The Middle East was a much, much more peaceful place before the state of Israel came into existence. The Jews and Arabs in that areas got along together much, much better before the state of Israel came into existence.

Any reasonable analysis of the situation shows that the single most destructive ingredient toward reasonable peace in the area…is the fact that the state of Israel exists there.

Israel and the United States insist that a state that has only existed for about 60 years MUST CONTINUE TO EXIST THERE. The elimination of a state of Israel seems to be the best possible bet for returning to peace and relatively reasonable co-existence among the Arabs and Jews…yet that HAS BEEN TAKEN OFF THE TABLE.

The insistence that Israel MUST BE ALLOWED to exist there is such a huge concession…that there is no way America or Israel can come close to matching.

For you to suggest that Israel is begging for the Arabs to be reasonable is an absurdity, Advocate.

Why should Israel negotiate with the Pals if the latter doesn't even recognize Israel's statehood. That should be a prerequisite.

I notice that in your, and other's, subsequent posts you devolve into a flawed discussion of ancient history. There has been endless discussion of that in this forum, and it is time to move to the future.

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Quote:

Why should Israel negotiate with the Pals if the latter doesn't even recognize Israel's statehood. That should be a prerequisite.

Why?

Quote:

I notice that in your, and other's, subsequent posts you devolve into a flawed discussion of ancient history.

I don't think so...but if you want to point out what you see as flawed, do so. If you simply want to assert that it is flawed, we cannot move forward.

Quote:

There has been endless discussion of that in this forum, and it is time to move to the future.

No such thing as endless here in this forum. If you want to point out any flaws, do so and we can discuss it.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

The reasons are implicit. But why should I spend time on this when you will just proceed to quibble the matter to death.

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5288580)
The reasons are implicit. But why should I spend time on this when you will just proceed to quibble the matter to death.

The reasons are NOT implicit...in fact, quite the contrary.

I suspect the reason you do not want to proceed is because you see the weakness of your position.

1 Reply

Israel Under Attack: Does Anyone Care?

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