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Communism vs. Democracy

 
 
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 04:20 pm
I have to debate someone in my grade 11 english class next wednesday, and i have to try to prove why communism is better than democracy. Any ideas for me to look into would be appriciated.

Thanks!
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 27,959 • Replies: 156
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Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 04:27 pm
pure democracy or a democratic republic, like in America?

You could argue that a pure democracy simply wouldn't function - if every person in a society had to vote on every decision in a society that society wouldn't be allowed to function. In communism all regulation is in the hands of the state so if your ruler is good, the only thing you have to worry about is working. You will also want to stress how everyone is equal and no one gets left behind or starves. You will probably want to glance over marx, then study lenin.

You could also point out that if the entire world was cooperatively communist, there would be no wars.


(try to avoid the inherent flaws in communism - such as no incentive for entrepeneurship and paying the same for janitors as doctors. Also try to avoid discussing what will happen if there is a bad leader.)
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 04:38 pm
Re: Communism vs. Democracy
K e v i n wrote:
I have to debate someone in my grade 11 english class next wednesday, and i have to try to prove why communism is better than democracy. Any ideas for me to look into would be appriciated.

Here's what I would do.

Get the principle works of Communist ideology: "The Communist Manifesto," "Capital," Engels's "Condition of the Working Class in England," Lenin's "Imperialism: the Last Stage of Capitalism," Mao's "Little Red Book." Drawing upon these works, prepare a large number of 3x5 note cards, explaining the historical forces at work undermining the capitalist system, the inevitable triumph of the urban proletariat, and the state ownership of the means of production. Produce some presentation-sized charts, demonstrating the inequalities of bourgeois capitalism and the benefits of collectivization. Then, on the day of the debate, bring all of these materials with you, and when it's your turn to present your case, take out a sock filled with lugnuts and beat your decadent capitalist stooge opponent repeatedly about the head and neck, shouting "we will bury you! we will bury you!" until he concedes your point.

Anyway, that always worked for me.
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 04:51 pm
If people were perfect, then communism would work better than a democracy. Try to prove that people are perfect. You may have to falsify some graphs, or quote forgotten philosophers. I always find it's useful to quote famous people as saying things they never said. "Abraham Lincoln noted the perfection of the general populace in his famous address at Gettysburg." You could even say that Lincoln quoted Lao Tsu, "Boy, are we all perfect or what?" (Note: if anyone brings up the argument that the quote sound sarcastic, just point out that the chinese don't use or understand sarcasm. They're just eleventh-graders, so they won't come up with a good comeback).
0 Replies
 
Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 05:06 pm
Re: Communism vs. Democracy
joefromchicago wrote:
K e v i n wrote:
I have to debate someone in my grade 11 english class next wednesday, and i have to try to prove why communism is better than democracy. Any ideas for me to look into would be appriciated.

Here's what I would do.

Get the principle works of Communist ideology: "The Communist Manifesto," "Capital," Engels's "Condition of the Working Class in England," Lenin's "Imperialism: the Last Stage of Capitalism," Mao's "Little Red Book." Drawing upon these works, prepare a large number of 3x5 note cards, explaining the historical forces at work undermining the capitalist system, the inevitable triumph of the urban proletariat, and the state ownership of the means of production. Produce some presentation-sized charts, demonstrating the inequalities of bourgeois capitalism and the benefits of collectivization. Then, on the day of the debate, bring all of these materials with you, and when it's your turn to present your case, take out a sock filled with lugnuts and beat your decadent capitalist stooge opponent repeatedly about the head and neck, shouting "we will bury you! we will bury you!" until he concedes your point.

Anyway, that always worked for me.


Who is your icon?

Have you ever seen the movie 1,2,3?
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K e v i n
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 05:14 pm
Its a democratic republic, I think the general idea of the debate is the americans vs. the russians, but if the russian system had actually worked.

Joe, i may try that next class.
well, the last part anyway
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 05:20 pm
I lived in russia for a couple of years (after communism). The place feel to pieces. But if you want I'll try to think up some hands on experience that would actually be useful (refer to last post).
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K e v i n
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 05:41 pm
oh i dont know, that last one sounded pretty useful to me...
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 05:45 pm
IMO your best bet is to try to pin the failures of Communism on Capitalism's paranoid ideological war on Communism.

Doing this while shouting "we will bury you!", as Joe suggested, should probably do the trick.
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Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 05:50 pm
In their purest forms aren't they pretty much the same thing, utopia.

Communism is great for changing around economies from very poor and screwed up to orderly and semi-productive, it fails after a while because of the problems stated up above. In other words, its a wonderful (tongue in cheek) nation building tool but hardly sustainable in the long run. Democracy is a far better system for the long term. Just harder to get in place, more bumps to iron out in the short term.
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K e v i n
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 05:53 pm
But wont a democratic country eventually just fall apart, like a comunist country? Wont anytype of government eventually just stop working?

(I have absolutly no idea what I am talking about, this is just a very uninformed opinion)
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Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 06:09 pm
K e v i n wrote:
Its a democratic republic, I think the general idea of the debate is the americans vs. the russians, but if the russian system had actually worked.

Joe, i may try that next class.
well, the last part anyway


So, you mean a representative democracy vs. a Soviet Socialist Authoritarian system. Those are entirely different things. I think you have some studying to do.

Look into the cold war.
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K e v i n
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 06:11 pm
ya, I really dont know politics. I dont know why their making me study this in an english class. It just means I am gonna have to study more, and do some indipendent learning, and... oh wait
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Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 06:13 pm
K e v i n wrote:
But wont a democratic country eventually just fall apart, like a comunist country? Wont anytype of government eventually just stop working?

(I have absolutly no idea what I am talking about, this is just a very uninformed opinion)


Yeah, things usually end. We have a democratic republic here in America - I think it is the first one. It's loosely based off of the British parliament and the Greeks. I think it will end but not because of it's economic policies - those make sense in terms of human nature. I think it's because the government keeps getting incrementally larger and more invasive over time. We have no real way of limiting the power of the federal government other than the constitution, which is old and out of date with regulation on many current movements - so it is ignored in those cases. Ex: privacy and the telecommunications industry. Capitalism (our economic system) makes sense in terms of human nature, so I would be suprised if there were terminal flaws in the capitalist system.
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 08:24 pm
Simple arguments from the Marxist point of view.

1. Communism is the future of mankind. It is not a matter of wishing, but the way history works. Humankind has evolved according to the laws of historical materialism from primitive communism to the slave system to feudalism to capitalism. It is bound to evolve to socialism and communism. This is science, not a set of beliefs.

2. In that sense, it does not matter if a certain brand of Communism failed. Social laws are still social laws. Communism shall prevail on the long run.

3. Why is Communism better? Because it emphasises fairness, all of us belonging to humankind: everyone gives according to his/her capacity; everyone receives according to his/her needs. Capitalism encourages competition, greed, exploitation of men and women. Socialism encourages solidarity among the peoples.

4. Why did the US imperialists win the Cold War? Because they had more money in the first place, since their country was not destroyed in World War II. They could even give some money to the Western European nations to prevent them from becoming socialist (which was the will of the people).
The US, through the arms race, forced the Soviet Union to divert many of its resources in its defense, deferring some of the social benefits the people of the Soviet Union and the Worker States of Eastern Europe deserved.
Still after the fall of Communism, most former Worker States have a better income distribution than the USA.

I rest your case, at a reasonable 11th grade level.
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SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 08:41 pm
Hey, Kevin, I don't know how organized your debate will be, but ask if you can go first. That way you can define your point in a way that your opponent won't expect. For example your statement could be "Communism would be better IF..." Your opponent won't expect the "if" and it might ruin some of his argument. For example he may be planning to say communism doesn't work because people won't work as hard since they get 'paid' the same either way. So you say in the beginning that your standpoint is "Communism works IF the poeple work hard to make it work" And he stands up and says, "Yes, but people naturally slack off" and you say "It doesn't matter. I'm not defending the integrity of people, I am defending the integrety of communism, run by theoretically perfect people." Just an example. The point is, define your standpoint in a way that makes it easiest to defend, and a lot of his arguments will no longer be valid.
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SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 08:45 pm
That won't work if he goes first.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 09:34 pm
Re: Communism vs. Democracy
Portal Star wrote:
Who is your icon?

Mayor Richard J. Daley of Chicago.

Portal Star wrote:
Have you ever seen the movie 1,2,3?

Not only have I seen it, I own a copy of it on dvd.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Mar, 2004 07:55 am
Hey, I will be in chicago next week for the first time, any suggestions about what to do? Also, who REALLY has the best chicago pizza?
0 Replies
 
Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Mar, 2004 09:18 am
McGentrix wrote:
Hey, I will be in chicago next week for the first time, any suggestions about what to do? Also, who REALLY has the best chicago pizza?


The place with the writing all over the walls.
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