10
   

Which came first: the Asperger's or the egg?

 
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 09:12 am
@Linkat,
That's the way it is here too, Linkat.

But there are a lot of kids that you just NEVER see except between the car and the door.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 09:13 am
@DrewDad,
I sometimes think they're googling to find out if there's a convenient excuse for being socially lazy.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 09:14 am
@boomerang,
I do think we've become phenomenally paranoid about our children. I live two blocks from the local elementary so my children have always walked/rode bikes to school. At least ten times I've had someone ask "aren't you worried about letting your kids walk to school?" It's two blocks through a good neighborhood with sidewalks. No, I'm not. The piano teacher is five blocks away. I get the same question. When I was nine, I walked from the apartment complex where we lived past the local bars and adults only apartment complexes to the local gym to play basketball. It was often dusk or dark when I walked home. No one thought anything about it.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 09:14 am
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

Yes, I get that. Everyone is thinking lack of social skills is asperger's and that isn't what it is. I'm trying to figure out why there seems to be an epidemic of poor social skills.

Just because a great swath of society is abusing truly measurable medical and scientific terms (phobias for example: I claim a phobia with ear wigs. If I really had a diagnosable phobia, then I would be socially crippled and couldn't leave my house in the irrational fear of encountering an ear wig. I've met plenty of ear wigs without having the extreme reaction someone with a legitimate phobia would have.

Saying I have a phobia (self-diagnosed) and others claiming self-diagnosed Aspergers is truly misunderstanding what it means to truly have clinically diagnosed phobies/Aspergers, etc.... It confuses the global issues in mental health. It continues the spread of misinformation in society on these VERY IMPORTANT issue and its out and out erroneous hyperbole. It's not however evidence for some societal trend.

Quote:
I know it isn't anything new, but it seems to be a growing problem.

I don't believe it's a growing problem. Just a misreading of the anecdotal evidence and seeming blooming trend that really doesn't exist.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 09:22 am
@boomerang,
Diplomats get training in diplomacy.

Doctors get training in bedside manner.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 09:32 am
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:
I don't believe it's a growing problem.


you don't have to believe it - but the research on this has been coming out pretty steadily for well over a decade now - there are arguments about the cause/s, but the results are pretty consistent, it's a different world for all of us because the Gen Y's are really different

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13676260600805713

http://magazine.biola.edu/article/10-fall/how-is-technology-shaping-generation-y/

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2005-11-06-gen-y_x.htm

http://www.etiquetteoutreach.com/blog_new-york-etiquette-guide/bid/53453/Business-Etiquette-Expert-Grades-Gen-Y-Shortcomings-and-Strengths

http://www.civiced.org/papers/research_engage.pdf
Quote:

This generation is, on average, less idealistic. In contrast to the most idealistic
generation in the last forty years (college freshmen in the late 1960s), this cohort is very different.

In the late 1960s, more than 80% of college freshmen endorsed “the importance of developing a meaningful philosophy of life” as their top value. “The importance of being very well off financially” ranked fifth or sixth. These two values have switched places: the top value is now being very well-off financially (71%). Developing a meaningful philosophy of life now occupies sixth place (41%) (American Freshman 1966-1996, and 1999, 13).

This is a generation that values self-fulfillment (75%) above patriotism (55%), religion (53%) or money (48%), but appears prepared to work hard
(87%) to achieve financial success (Wall Street Journal, 7/6/98).


http://www.charteredaccountants.com.au/News-Media/Charter/Charter-articles/Business-management/2012-08-Who-Where-Y

http://www.quintcareers.com/Gen-Y_workforce.html

Quote:
In the end, of course, every person -- every worker -- is judged on his or her merits, not on generalities or misconceptions. Still, based on the research and anecdotal evidence, it may be a bumpy ride for both employers and Generation Y workers in the years ahead.


http://www.smartcompany.com.au/hiring/who-d-hire-a-gen-y.html
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 09:38 am
@ehBeth,
I never said that there wasn't difference between generations. In fact, that's my exact point. I know that there are major societal chasms between the generations. I am saying that the differences between generations isn't a social implosion on a pandemic scale (AKA something bad/worry about).

I'll try and read a few of these articles after work this coming week. Thanks for the appropriate lit to read.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 09:40 am
@tsarstepan,
there is a LOT more research - probably 800 pdf's of papers

employers and researchers aren't in agreement with your take on it
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 09:47 am
@boomerang,
Yes - I've seen a boy I haven't seen before until yesterday at the bus stop.
ossobuco
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 09:49 am
I have no idea whether this is a growing phenomenon or not. Seems like it may be. Certainly there have been myriad anecdotes about children not playing outside the way we did in the fifties. Whether that translates into numbers re more children being socially awkward, I gather that is being researched.. but who researched it back in the fifties to compare numbers with?

I was awkward as an effect of hardly having any other children to play with until we moved to Chicago when I turned nine (only child and we moved a lot). Talk about shy. Plus my mother was shy as well, a lot of the time. I got over it, starting the day I got a job at sixteen. But even as little miss shy, I'm not sure I was a complete mess the few times I was in situations outside of school, visiting parents' friends who sometimes had children. But let's say I had a great deal to learn at nine.

I do think that my reading over the years helped socialize me.

In contrast to me, my niece was taught by her father how to take the buses way across Los Angeles when she was nine or ten. That was for a reason, as her mother lived far across town. He always tried to develop her ability to get around, be it on bicycle or bus. Nothing horrible happened with all that, and she's a very capable woman now, in her early twenties. Great socially too.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 09:54 am
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

Yes - I've seen a boy I haven't seen before until yesterday at the bus stop.

That happens a lot here in NYC with the subway system as well. Go figure... Wink
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 10:01 am
@Linkat,
But just because you don't see him doesn't mean that he doesn't have friends, or fun, or freedom.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 10:09 am
@engineer,
We live less than a block from the school and I got the same question, engineer. People would always comment on how "independent" and "resourceful" Mo was. In his later years there, parents were asking me HOW to get their kids to walk to school by themselves because they (the kids) were afraid to.

The school Mo is going to now allows high schoolers off campus privileges for lunch. As far as I can tell it is the only school that trusts these near adults to do that.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 10:13 am
@tsarstepan,
I don't think I'm imagining things and the research backs me up.

What I'm saying is that people are gloaming on to a medical designation to describe a social problem. Children aren't given much time for free play and competition has taken the place of collaboration -- especially in schools. I think this is a problem. Parents lock their kids indoors, not allowing them any freedom because they are afraid and I think this is stunting kids social maturation.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 10:15 am
@DrewDad,
I'm not a diplomat but I use diplomacy every day. I think it's an essential skill.

I've had doctors that had no bedside manner at all. They weren't my doctors for long.

I really don't think it's something you can teach. I think it has to be learned through experience.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 10:18 am
@ehBeth,
Thanks so much for all of the links, ehBeth! I've got some reading to do.

Quote:
I sometimes think they're googling to find out if there's a convenient excuse for being socially lazy.


I think the laziness comes from inexperience.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 10:37 am
@DrewDad,
Of course - but the bus stops (and this irks me too) every block. So this kid basically lives next door to us and we haven't seen him.

Yes - he could be playing elsewhere, but the premise of kids not playing outside in their neighborhood - he fits the bill. He hasn't all summer been out in the neighborhood playing. We knew he lived there as our neighbor filled us in on who lives where, with kids, etc. So we knew he was there, but never made an outdoor appearance until the first day of school.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 11:28 am
@Linkat,
Quote:
Yes - he could be playing elsewhere, but the premise of kids not playing outside in their neighborhood - he fits the bill. He hasn't all summer been out in the neighborhood playing. We knew he lived there as our neighbor filled us in on who lives where, with kids, etc. So we knew he was there, but never made an outdoor appearance until the first day of school.

This doesn't constitute a reasonable diagnosis for poor social skills. It just means you haven't happened to notice the child before getting on the bus. You weren't in the right place at the right time to see him do whatever social thing he does each and every day. Just one coincidental event that doesn't lead up to a trend.
boomerang
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 12:03 pm
@tsarstepan,
Quote:
Let's remember that everything and everyone was healthier, happier, better prepared, etc... in the past like our generation conveniently was.... (((sigh))) Rolling Eyes Sorry. I can't even type that with a straight face.... Neutral


Nobody has said that.

There has been shift in social skills. People have noticed it, business has noticed it, social scientists have noted it (and are studying it) and we're discussing it. I'm not sure why you're so defensive about it.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2012 12:36 pm
I feel more and more out of the loop on these conversations since I'm not in touch with that many parents outside of my community anymore, and my community seems atypical.

I definitely agree that kids have less unstructured goofing around time than they used to, and I don't think that's good. The whole death of the daytime neighborhood thing.

We experienced that up until third grade or so. I did find out later that we're in a relatively dead pocket of our area -- lots of older people and retirees, and the kids who were around tended to go to daycare and such. Other areas (like, blocks away) are crawling with kids 24/7.

But from 4th grade on its been much more freerange. This was part of why we moved to the area, we saw it when we were house-hunting.

Kids walk almost everywhere, and when they're not walking they're riding bikes (or skateboarding).

My own kid is off doing whatever with friends from when the school bell rings until dinnertime (if I can get her home for dinner). She walks home (or to a friend's house or wherever they wind up) so I frequently don't see her for 12 hours or so, from before school 'til after dinner.

She does have some scheduled activities in the evening -- soccer, dance -- but generally she's just running wild for hours. This summer was the first one where I had nothing to do with the pool, and I sometimes would go a week where I barely saw her (definitely at that tipping point between being relieved when she goes off to do something so I have some time to do my own stuff, and missing her because she's gone all the time, but that's a whole other thread).

So, that's our experience here, but I don't think it's that typical these days.

I can believe that social skills are suffering as a result of fewer opportunities for unstructured socialization.

One benchmark I guess I have is that adults within the community like sozlet but take her pretty much in stride -- people outside of the community are more likely to be really impressed by her. (She's quite the social being.)

Just thought of another benchmark actually -- our good friends moved to South Carolina a couple of years ago and the kids are having the hardest time not chatting at school. They're very used to just sort of constantly bantering in a way that is frowned on, there.

So it's possible our community is freakish, I dunno. I certainly like it and am glad we found it. (With, I always feel compelled to add here, considerable help from Setanta.)
 

Related Topics

I feel alone - Discussion by RisingToShine
Am I strange or is this normal? - Question by blackbear
The Oddball Case of Darius McCollum - Discussion by tsarstepan
Small head, hands and feet? - Question by Ditzy722
The new abnormal -- DSM 5 - Question by boomerang
Does he have adult Aspergers? - Question by serenity166
NEWTON - EINSTEIN - Aspergers? - Discussion by Mr Stillwater
 
Copyright © 2022 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 08/14/2022 at 12:57:38