20
   

Why the west was the first to industrialize?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 10:58 am
@contrex,
Quote:
Tell me about it. Madame Contrex is from Wigan, and went to a convent school. She is, happily, completely lapsed.


I dare say I could offer a few reasons why you approve so enthusiastically.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 01:21 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
I dare say I could offer a few reasons why you approve so enthusiastically.


You may as well keep them to yourself. In any case it is she who is happy to be lapsed.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 01:55 pm
...no one still came up with the argument considering the Jews that Portugal and Spain exported to Europe in the fifteen century or so...allot of wealth and good sense went along with them...although in an earlier period started way back Industrial Revolution I am not entirely sure the dots cannot be connected as it was a continuous process, and precisely because of such...again Catholicism and the holly office of Inquisition were the main reason behind that stupid move prompted by an envious decrepit aristocracy as lacking in instruction as in good sense and a Church unwilling to loose any protagonism...a great deal of our scientific medical cultural and entrepreneurial community went to the Flanders and Holland the great beneficiary's of south Europe most ridiculous mistake...of course it still a stretch to far to exclusively blame the church as the problem runs deeper, but nonetheless hardly can it be denied their responsibility in the process....
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 02:38 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:
the holly office of Inquisition


Is that the place where they organized the Christmas greenery?

Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 03:03 pm
@contrex,
It seems like we approve all kinds of party's innit ?...
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 04:59 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:
the Jews that Portugal and Spain exported to Europe


Er, Portugal and Spain are actually in Europe... Are atlases banned in the US schools along with evolution?


reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 05:05 pm
@contrex,
Quote:
Er, Portugal and Spain are actually in Europe... Are atlases banned in the US schools along with evolution?


I apologize for my inability to coherently understand your reply but I think that it may add value to my understanding if you would you elaborate on what you are sharing? Thanks.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 05:07 pm
@reasoning logic,
Yeah contrex. Share your thoughts.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 05:10 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Are atlases banned in the US schools along with evolution?


My bad I thought you were making a statement but it seems that I was careless reading your question. Wink
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 08:53 pm
@contrex,
Ah, Fil is Portuguese, and lives in Portugal....
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 10:15 pm
@contrex,
what ? lol you lost me there pal ...
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 12:11 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

what ? lol you lost me there pal ...


You wrote "the Jews that Portugal and Spain exported to Europe". Since the Iberian pensinsula is part of Europe, the phrase "exported to Europe" makes no sense. Perhaps you meant "exported to other parts of Europe".

hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 12:31 am
@contrex,
Gawd, this is déjà vu, the 'humans can't support animal rights because humans are animals' conversation.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 02:11 am
@contrex,
oh dear... lol, kk whatever...

(Since I live in Portugal and was referring from Portugal to Europe at large that is unnecessary...Portugal is still an independent state and all the while it is in Europe it is not Europe !)

PS- Portugal been part of Europe or North Africa has been a matter of some debate now among ourselves... Laughing
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 02:47 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:
(Since I live in Portugal and was referring from Portugal to Europe at large that is unnecessary...Portugal is still an independent state and all the while it is in Europe it is not Europe !)


This is apparently too subtle for this non-native-English-speaker. I meant Europe geographically. You wouldn't say "export from Argentina and Brazil to South America" or "export from Burkina Faso and Nigeria to Africa" or "export from Vietnam and Cambodia to Asia".

Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 07:35 am
@contrex,
Why not ??? If it is from one country to several places in Europe the generalization suffices and there is no need of such detailed explanation people ought to know that Portugal is in Europe...you have no solid point in there at all...Portugal is a sovereign independent state ! If I say that China exports Tea for the all or around Asia there is no big mistake in there...
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 08:20 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Why not ??? If it is from one country to several places in Europe the generalization suffices and there is no need of such detailed explanation people ought to know that Portugal is in Europe...you have no solid point in there at all...Portugal is a sovereign independent state ! If I say that China exports Tea for the all or around Asia there is no big mistake in there...



You are missing the point. Give up now, Dom Albuquerque.

hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 08:24 am
@contrex,
I'm with fil contrex, his meaning was clear to me. You're just being anal retentive for the sake of it. To be fair that's one of my hobbies too.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 09:02 am
@hingehead,
This is going back a bit, prior to industrialisation, but the book Guns, Germs And Steel, gives a reasonable explanation for the prominance of Eurasia above the other continents.

Quote:
Diamond argues that Eurasian civilization is not so much a product of ingenuity, but of opportunity and necessity. That is, civilization is not created out of superior intelligence, but is the result of a chain of developments, each made possible by certain preconditions.

In our earliest societies, humans lived as hunter-gatherers. The first step towards civilization is the move from hunter-gatherer to agriculture, with the domestication and farming of wild crops and animals. Agricultural production leads to food surpluses, which supports sedentary societies, specialization of craft, rapid population growth, and specialization of labor. Large societies tend to develop ruling classes and supporting bureaucracies, which may lead in turn to the organization of nation states and empires.[3]

Although agriculture arose in several parts of the world, Eurasia gained an early advantage due to the greater availability of suitable plant and animal species for domestication. In particular, Eurasia had the best collection of plants and animals suitable for domestication – barley, two varieties of wheat and three protein-rich pulses for food; flax for textiles; goats, sheep and cattle provided meat, leather, glue (by boiling the hooves and bones) and, in the case of sheep, wool. As early Middle Eastern civilizations began to trade, they found additional useful animals in adjacent territories, most notably horses and donkeys for use in transport.

In contrast, Native American farmers had to struggle to develop maize as a useful food from its probable wild ancestor, teosinte; moreover, it provides few nutrients and must be planted one by one – an extremely cumbersome task. Eurasians had wheat and barley, which are high in fiber and nutrients and can be sown en masse with just a toss of the hand. They generated food surpluses which supported greater population growth. Such growth led to larger workforces and more inventors, artisans, etc. Grains can also be stored for longer periods of time unlike tropical crops such as bananas.

Eurasia as a whole domesticated 13 species of large animals (over 100 lb / 44 kg); South America just one (counting the llama and alpaca as breeds within the same species); the rest of the world none at all. Diamond describes the small number of domesticated species (14 out of 148 "candidates") as an instance of the Anna Karenina principle: many promising species have just one of several significant difficulties that prevent domestication.

Sub-Saharan Africans had mostly wild mammals, whereas Eurasians chanced to have the most docile large animals on the planet: horses and camels that are easily tamed for human transport; but their biological relatives zebras and onagers are untameable; and although African elephants can be tamed, it is very difficult to breed them in captivity;[3][4] goats and sheep for hides, clothing, and cheese; cows for milk; bullocks for tilling fields and transport; and benign animals such as pigs and chickens. Africans, developing alongside large mammals, had available lions, leopards etc. Diamond points out that the only animals useful for human survival and purposes in New Guinea came from the East Asian mainland when they were transplanted during the Austronesian settlement some 4,000–5,000 years ago.

Eurasia's large landmass and long east-west distance increased these advantages. Its large area provided it with more plant and animal species suitable for domestication, and allowed its people to exchange both innovations and diseases. Its East-West orientation allowed breeds domesticated in one part of the continent to be used elsewhere through similarities in climate and the cycle of seasons. In contrast, Australia suffered from a lack of useful animals due to extinction, probably by human hunting, shortly after the end of the Pleistocene. The Americas had difficulty adapting crops domesticated at one latitude for use at other latitudes (and, in North America, adapting crops from one side of the Rocky Mountains to the other). Africa was fragmented by its extreme variations in climate from North to South: plants and animals that flourished in one area never reached other areas where they could have flourished, because they could not survive the intervening environment. Europe was the ultimate beneficiary of Eurasia's East-West orientation: in the first millennium BC, the Mediterranean areas of Europe adopted the Middle East's animals, plants, and agricultural techniques; in the first millennium AD, the rest of Europe followed suit.

The plentiful supply of food and the dense populations that it supported made division of labor possible. The rise of non-farming specialists such as craftsmen and scribes accelerated economic growth and technological progress. These economic and technological advantages eventually enabled Europeans to conquer the peoples of the other continents in recent centuries by using the "Guns" and "Steel" of the book's title.

Eurasia's dense populations, high levels of trade, and living in close proximity to livestock resulted in widespread transmission of diseases, including from animals to humans. Natural selection forced Eurasians to develop immunity to a wide range of pathogens. When Europeans made contact with America, European diseases (to which they had no immunity) ravaged the indigenous American population, rather than the other way around (the "trade" in diseases was a little more balanced in Africa and southern Asia: endemic malaria and yellow fever made these regions notorious as the "white man's grave"; and syphilis may have spread in the opposite direction). The European diseases – the "Germs" of the book's title – decimated indigenous populations so that relatively small numbers of Europeans could maintain their dominance.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel
hingehead
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 09:06 am
@izzythepush,
You should read the first couple of pages G,G & S gets plenty of mentions.

How are the Saints doing? - we're up 2-1 at Swansea at half time. Off to get another beer and watch the second half.
 

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