27
   

Armstrong to be Stripped of all 7 Titles

 
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 12:03 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
The report said the retesting produced “resoundingly positive values” from six samples
.

Once more we have the not small problem of the chain of custody of samples kept god know how and under what controls if any for 13 years.

Seems a lot of people have skin in the game in proving Armstrong is dirty.


Robert Gentel
 
  4  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 12:05 pm
@BillRM,
"Would you look at that! Everyone is marching out of step except for my little Bobby."
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 12:13 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Well Robert I would even defense you if people who did not like you have control of evidences for 13 years under unknown controls if any and then claimed that news tests on the evidence are showing you did the crime after all.
Robert Gentel
 
  4  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 12:21 pm
@BillRM,
The evidence is not just the tests, but overwhelming amounts of eye-witness testimony. Pretty much anyone who has been around him closely has seen the evidence of it. From his bike mechanics to teammates. They saw the drugs in his house, saw him using them.

He even failed tests way back in the day and was able to get his lawyers to get them thrown out on technicalities about "handling". But believe what you want, nothing will change your mind and his current tactic is tailored for folks like you.

If you want to believe there's some kind of conspiracy and people just are out to get him I can live with failing to have convinced you otherwise but you are clearly doing so while rejecting all available evidence as being somehow tainted, motivated by spite and revenge.

But you know, even then we are talking about an asshole of Biblical proportions. One who is able to get just about every friend and associate he has hell-bent on proving he was a doper, not because he actually dopes but just because they all are willing to stick their necks out on the line (even confessing to their own doping etc) just to stick it to the man.

He's either a cheat and everyone around him is testifying to it, or he has the amazing quality of pissing everyone off so much that they decide to all get together and try to stick it to him by accusing him of cheating falsely. No matter what, my qualm with him is with the fact that he oozes douchebaggery. A born asshole.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 12:31 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
The evidence is not just the tests, but overwhelming amounts of eye-witness testimony. Pretty much anyone who has been around him closely has seen the evidence of it. From his bike mechanics to teammates. They saw the drugs in his house, saw him using them.


An how must pressure was placed on those people to give those statements?

Getting Armstrong had been a long long long running campaign and there is no indicate that the investigators had not been pounding both people and the evidence to fit the theory of Armstrong being dirty.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 12:34 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Seems a lot of people have skin in the game in proving Armstrong is dirty.

So who wins by trashing US racing? Who are all of these people who will reap the windfall now that Armstrong is brought low?
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 12:39 pm
@BillRM,
Engineer took the question right out of my mouth. What pressure? For what purpose?

Who has anything to gain by admitting their drug use just to tarnish Lance?

Lance is the most litigious celebrity I know of, people who criticize him or accuse him of anything had better lawyer up. There is plenty of reason not to accuse him. What is the reason that 11 of his riding team-mates have confessed to their doping and his?

I mean, you can explain things like the ex-wife, but why would she make up that she had a part in it (distributing pills to other riders)? Why would everyone be turning themselves in just to stick it to Lance? Most of them are implicating themselves as well. Just to make the lie more credible?

What kind of conspiracy are you imagining? Veracity aside, it doesn't even have a compelling narrative yet.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 12:49 pm
@engineer,
Let see for years his team mates claimed that there was no doping and then when they turn around we should give their new statements credit and forget the positions they had taken for a decade or so.

Back up by hundreds of drug tests.

As far as pressures is concern we will bring charges of one kind or another it you do not turn on Armstrong seems a likely form of pressure.
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 12:54 pm
@BillRM,
He failed drug tests in the past. Sometimes he did things like backdate prescriptions to justify them, and in other times due to handling technicalities the tests were not valid.

But they were unequivocally failed tests, that he was able to avoid punishment based on those technicalities.

So do you think this conspiracy dates back a decade like that? With labs around the world helping this conspiracy by faking these test results? And why?

You say the team mates are lying under "pressure" to testify, why was Lance failing tests back then? Was he under "pressure" to provide those results? Were the laboratories corrupted in various countries to do so?

And why? This is like the Underwear Gnomes of conspiracy theories.

1) Accuse Lance of doping and fake his positive results
2) ?????
3) Profit! $$$$

engineer
 
  3  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 12:57 pm
@BillRM,
But why? Bringing down Armstrong only makes US racing and sports in general look bad. Bringing down his teammates does the same. What about all the other non-racers who have made statements about Armstrong and drugs? Where's the profit in any of this that would drive such a widespread conspiracy? How could you involve so many people without one of them going to the press and saying "they were twisting my arm to get poor Lance?"

When that airliner went down near Iceland, there was a conspiracy theory that said that a Navy cruiser accidentally took it down with a missle. I couldn't stop from laughing that people really belived that you could keep a secret that big given that a cruiser has 1000+ sailors on it. Likewise, the conspiracy you propose to get Armstrong would have to have 100% support from a huge number of people across a large spectrum of occupations and motivations. It just doesn't close that so many people would risk so much for so little gain.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 12:57 pm
@Robert Gentel,
He was failing tests and the drug agency wave him by anyway how interesting to say the least.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 01:02 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Back up by hundreds of drug tests.


the evidence is that there were not hundreds of drug tests administered to Mr. Armstrong. The evidence is that there were probably less than 100 drug tests administered. The evidence is that with new testing abilities, anomalies in the results are showing up.

The truth might have been exposed sooner if he'd taken all the blood tests he was scheduled for.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 01:02 pm
@BillRM,
He failed a test for corticosteroids in 1999 but came up with a doctor's prescription (which his team mates now claim they witnesses the backdating of) to get out of it. His 1999 blood was also retested for EPO (which back in 1999 they did not have a test for) and showed clear EPO use but because of the handling issue you describe it can't be used to sanction him.

This is why he is not going down on the basis of any single test, even though he has multiple positive tests on his record these technicalities invalidate them each individually.

However given the body of the evidence, together with a significant body of eye-witness testimony, he is being sanctioned.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 01:03 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Once more we have the not small problem of the chain of custody of samples kept god know how and under what controls if any for 13 years.


what evidence do YOU have of the chain of custody being disturbed?
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 04:05 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
what evidence do YOU have of the chain of custody being disturbed?


Don't need any evidence as the people claiming that these old samples are valid have that burden of proof and it is strange that they did not address that question in anyway to date that I am aware of.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 07:08 pm
@Ragman,
Thanks raggy. Vale Alex Karras. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Karras
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Oct, 2012 06:21 am
Well, this is significant because he's kept saying that his effective banishment from cycling will just free him up to focus on Livestrong...

Lance Armstrong Stepping Down As Livestrong Chairman

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/17/lance-armstrong-livestrong_n_1973097.html
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Oct, 2012 08:17 am
@snood,
Nike finally dumped him as well, saying the evidence was insurmountable.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Oct, 2012 06:58 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Well, this is significant because he's kept saying that his effective banishment from cycling will just free him up to focus on Livestrong...

Lance Armstrong Stepping Down As Livestrong Chairman

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/17/lance-armstrong-livestrong_n_1973097.html


I interviewed at Livestrong.
I'm glad I didn't get the job.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2012 08:27 am
Lance Armstrong: Biggest sports fraud ever?

The lying is one thing, but it's the cyclist staggering arrogance that makes his downfall downright historic

http://www.salon.com/2012/10/19/lance_armstrong_biggest_sports_fraud_ever/
 

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