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Floyd Landis in trouble.

 
 
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 06:43 am
Landis will appeal and drag it out for months. If I'm not mistaken, it was Landis who broke away with Lance Armstrong on his last tour. On that stage they gained so much time on the others that Armstrong easily won the tour.
Competitive cycling is in deep trouble. In order to clean up its image, all countries will have to ban guilty cyclists for life.
Anything less will result in fan apathy: "Cycling is fixed, let's treat it like wrestling."
........................................
Tour de France winner Floyd Landis is set to become the first victor of the race to be stripped of his title after his B sample confirmed he had abnormal levels of testosterone on Saturday.
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The 30-year-old American -- who was also sacked by his Phonak team following the announcement -- had failed a drugs test after the 17th stage of the Tour de France which he had won to get his way back into the race just a day after he had faded out of contention.
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However the sport's governing body UCI revealed on Saturday that the B sample had simply confirmed the initial findings - though Landis's camp had already accepted that it would.
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http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2122816,00.html
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 3,472 • Replies: 34
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Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 04:21 pm
Proof positive
2nd test matches first; Tour shuns Landis as champ


PARIS (AP) -- The Tour de France no longer calls him champion. His cycling team cut him loose.

About the only chance Floyd Landis has of keeping his prized yellow jersey will now likely be decided by an appeals process that could drag on for months.

Landis was discredited and disowned in short order Saturday when elevated levels of testosterone showed up in his "B" or second doping sample -- as it did in the initial "A" sample released last week.

The samples also contained synthetic testosterone, indicating that it came from an outside source.

If stripped of the title, Landis would become the first winner in the 103-year history of cycling's premier race to lose his Tour crown over doping allegations.

Landis again denied cheating.

"I have never taken any banned substance, including testosterone," he said in a statement. "I was the strongest man at the Tour de France, and that is why I am the champion.

"I will fight these charges with the same determination and intensity that I bring to my training and racing. It is now my goal to clear my name and restore what I worked so hard to achieve."
(from SI.com)
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Anonymous Net Surfer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Aug, 2006 05:17 am
I really hope he's not guilty, and that it's some sort of error. I admit my bias. Hell, I still think Tyler is innocent.

But penalties for doping in professional cycling have come a long way. In 1988, a Dutch rider who tested positive for testosterone in the Tour de France was given a 10 minute penalty, but was allowed to continue on in the event. Today, the first time a rider is caught he or she is given an automatic 2-year ban. Professional cycling is the most tested sport and the penalties for infractions are extremely severe.
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detano inipo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Aug, 2006 08:02 am
Any sport that becomes a business is doomed to be corrupt.
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Some things shouldn't be done for money.
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bigdice67
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Aug, 2006 09:56 am
As long as there is money to be made in sports, there will be doping.

Anyone not involved in sports that still believes that there are athletes who are clean, and compete on the highest levels of international sports, be it cycling, track and field, football, baseball, swimming, you name it, is prolly still waiting for Santa Claus.

Lots of money are being made with sports, look at the GatlinPowell Duel, they we're making money out of that fight without even running, and when they did run, at least Gatlin used stuff that wasn't Advil... And the people supplying the athletes with the steroids, like Balco, are also making a killing! "Look! Our stuff made him so fast/strong/whatever."

And the only people not making money are we, the spectators. We pay to see the fatsest/strongest/longestjumping athletes... Are we thus to blame, in the long run?
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Anonymous Net Surfer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Aug, 2006 03:42 pm
Are we thus to blame, in the long run?
-bigdice67

No.
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detano inipo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Aug, 2006 04:06 pm
Sportsfans and spectators are not to blame except for their naivety. They love a sport or a game and it takes a lot of guts to stop watching.
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The people I feel sorry for are the young, idealistic athletes who work like slaves to reach the top. They find out that the top is owned by cheaters.
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Karl Lewis has a ton of medals and world records to his name. In my book none of them count; he was taking more than aspirins. Some champ!
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Anonymous Net Surfer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 03:07 am
"San Diego computer entrepreneur Michael Robertson on Thursday offered Tour de France winner Floyd Landis $100,000 to "clear the air" and take a polygraph examination while addressing charges that he doped on his way to victory in the Tour.

Robertson, who made his fortune off of investments in a host of software companies - including a Linux-based operating system called "Linspire" and and VOIP system know as SIPphone - is also a former collegiate cyclist and fan of the professional peloton. Robertson sent a fax addressed to Landis on Thursday offering to test the cyclist using a set of mutually agreed-upon questions designed to reveal facts surrounding doping allegations that came to light just days after completion of the Tour."

http://velonews.com/news/fea/10643.0.html
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 03:57 am
Landis gave a very impressive interview on BBC Radio4 this morning.

Personally, I'm inclined to believe the guy. Maybe his sample was tampered with...the testing is not 'blind testing'. Maybe politics were at play here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/5254402.stm
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 06:26 am
I'd guess close to 80% of the riders dope to some extent.

The fix is in the testing, not the taking.

I don't understand how folks can't see that.
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detano inipo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 07:36 am
When 80% are doping, we can either stop all racing or stop all testing.
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Has the world become so jaded that we shrug our shoulders and accept cheating?
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Why not stop all sports. Give the people bread and circuses. Greed triumphs over idealism.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 08:46 am
Yes but the 20% who don't are still on the other side of the Alps! Laughing
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Anonymous Net Surfer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 08:58 am
"Personally, I'm inclined to believe the guy. Maybe his sample was tampered with...the testing is not 'blind testing'. Maybe politics were at play here."
- McTag

That thought crossed my mind- that his samples were tampered with. However, it seems highly unlikely. Of course, if the testing isn't completely anonymous then the likelihood increases. Of course, it would very mean-spirited to ruin the career of a professional cyclist just so that Tour is not won yet again by an "America." And it does seem odd that his samples would test clean in every other test (remember the wearer of yellow jersey gets tested every day) except one.

But yea, I'm inclined to believe the guy too.

BTW, I wasn't able to even open the audio link.
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 09:25 am
It's no secret that the French have been trying to bag Armstrong and American competitors with a white-hot fervor that is unbounded.

On a different note, perhaps the pro cycling competition testing and the procedures are flawed. Landis seems to be pursuing this as a tactic for his defense.

In his last interview he says the absolute value of his natural testosterone level was actually well UNDER the norm. So he and his lawyer will attempt to confuse ...I mean ...pursue his defense on the grounds of the test being technically flawed. (I'm unclear about such details being a layman.) the governing body says he flunked due to the ratio of "unnatural" testosterone compared to natural was far in excess. Landis claims that his natural level was so low (due to testing error or unknown reasons) that the ratio would be far off the charts. Of course, it doesn't explain how un-natural testosterone of ANY sort got there in the FIRST place.

Also, Landis makes this seemingly valid point: why on this one day ONLY did he not pass the test when he was tested and passed 20 other times during the TdF? Why is it that on every other day did he pass with flying colors? According to Landis, it's ineffective to only dope FOR ONE DAY. These medical facts need some investigation. Don't you think?

<sigh> I'm a former cyclist. IMHO, I'm feeling that in the future I won't be paying any attention to TdF anymore . In my mind and heart this sport has been rendered as a junk sport. The players, the TdF administrators, and the Media have rendered this a useless sporting event. Who wants to watch lab test rats running though a maze. Why not just have a competition between Balco (Barry Bonds infamous steroid lab) against some French lab against some Russian or Italian lab.

NICE WORK!
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Anonymous Net Surfer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 02:29 pm
"According to Landis, it's ineffective to only dope FOR ONE DAY. These medical facts need some investigation. Don't you think?"
-Ragman_orig

Not only according to Landis, but many other experts in the field. I think testosterone allows for quicker recovery time and is more effective if used in training because its effects take time to work. It's not like a blood doping, where the effects are immediate. So, if he was taking testosterone the question for me is how did he manage to beat all the other tests before and after the sample that was taken after stage 17?

And professional cycling is highly tested. The riders have to be available to tested anytime of the year within a few hours of the call to do so. The leader of Tour is tested every day, as well as the stage winner, and two riders chosen at random.
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 05:09 pm
Anonymous_Net_Surfer wrote:

And professional cycling is highly tested. The riders have to be available to tested anytime of the year within a few hours of the call to do so. The leader of Tour is tested every day, as well as the stage winner, and two riders chosen at random.


One potential way of cheating and hiding that you use synth testosterone is to use a masking agent. So, theoretically, if you miss the administering of the masking agent for one day... say day 17? Then ...?

One potential problem here, for starters, is how well is the chain of custody followed. Also, how good are these tests as far as accuracy goes? It sure makes me wonder how this guy could have his career and life put on hold until these idiots are done with proving how inept they REALLY are.

They tried to do this to Lance Armstrong for his entire biking career and failed. What's the conclusion? Perhaps it's that they just can't tolerate an American beating them on their own turf.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 07:30 pm
The French seem incapable of beating anyone at anything, so they resort to underground (and underhanded) resistance. Quite fitting.
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 07:30 pm
They also test for masking agents, though. As early as 1988 the Spaniard, Pedro Delgado tested for probenecid which is used to mask the use of steroids. The Union Cycliste Internationale [International Cycling Union] (UCI) was using tests developed by the International Olympic Committee (IOC), but they, the UCI, hadn't banned probenecid yet. They were going to do that the following year. So, Delgado, not violating any of the UCI anti-doping rules, was allowed to finish and won that year's Tour de France.

But then again, since doping is a cat and mouse game, the dopers tend to be a step ahead of the testing authorities, and there may be other substances that are being used as masking agents that aren't tested for. But at this point it's all speculation.
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 07:54 pm
InfraBlue wrote:

But then again, since doping is a cat and mouse game, the dopers tend to be a step ahead of the testing authorities, and there may be other substances that are being used as masking agents that aren't tested for. But at this point it's all speculation.


amen. that's why i feel I'm tuning out after this last Tour De Farce. It's over ...they all are frauds.
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detano inipo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 08:09 pm
These are other "Americans" found guilty by those wicked Frenchmen. Listen to your posts, sour grapes all the way.
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Canadian Dick Pound is in his sixth year as the chairman of the worldwide anti-doping agency, which was established by the International Olympic Committee in 1999 after a drug scandal shook the 1998 Tour de France.
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2006: Tour de France winner Floyd Landis' team says he tested positive for high levels of testosterone after his Stage 17 win.
2006: Jan Ullrich, Ivan Basso and Francisco Mancebo withdraw from the Tour de France after they are named in a doping investigation in Spain.

2005: Spaniard Roberto Heras is banned for two years for testing positive for EPO in the Tour of Spain, which he won.

2004: Three riders are prevented from starting the Tour de France. Two others are kicked out of the race after doping investigations. Britain's David Millar later admits to taking the blood booster erythropoietin.

1998: Festina cycling team expelled in the first week of the Tour de France after a team car was found loaded with performance-enhancing drugs. Festina rider Richard Virenque of France is later banned for six months after admitting doping.

1982: The winner of the Tour of Spain, Spanish rider Angel Arroyo, is disqualified after testing positive for amphetamines.

1967: Briton Tommy Simpson dies on a hill climb during the Tour de France. A vial containing an amphetamine was found.
-- Reuters
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http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2006/news/story?id=2505072
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