Gun Control and the Illusion of Security

@oralloy,

Oralloy, your posts are so irrational that they aren't worth arguing with.

1 Reply

@vikorr,

vikorr wrote:

Oralloy, your posts are so irrational that they aren't worth arguing with.

In other words, you can't point out any facts I have wrong, and I stand in the way of your anti-freedom agenda.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

LMAO. Let's just say your claim that one States crime rate outweighs all the other States is so utterly ridiculous that there is nothing to debate...as is your paranoia...as is your circular reasoning...as is your inability to actually debate rather than spout 'the constitution says yadda, yadda, yadda'...as are so many other of your irrational rantings.

1 Reply

@vikorr,

Quote:

it claimed that one of the crims kept going (firing shots) for 2min after being shot through the heart (with a 9mm I think it was).

That why a lot of people in the military hate the fact that the military went away from the 1911 45 that was design to put down dope up Filipinos coming after US troops with swords.

Quote:

But tougher pass standards for hitting a target is always good, especially for police officers.

I been to gun ranges with police officers and I had not repeat not been impress with their shotting skills on the whole and those are the police officers that had taken the time to go a public range to practice.

Next there been shoots out where the police fire many many rounds and at very close range and few if any hit the target.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

Next there been shoots out where the police fire many many rounds and at very close range and few if any hit the target.

That's rather sad...although I guess that it's hard to tell for sure, because firing at a (presumably) moving target with a handgun under an adrenalin dump would be incredibly difficult, even if you were a good target shooter.

I'm also curious - though I don't quite understand your police system that well - were the poor range shooters with a small police force that may not have a big budget?

In any event - police forces should make sure their officers are proficient. It creates additional dangers otherwise (as others have noted).

1 Reply

@vikorr,

Quote:

I'm also curious - though I don't quite understand your police system that well - were the poor range shooters with a small police force that may not have a big budget?

It was at an outdoor range own by the county of Miami-Dade so I am assuming the cops with special note of County cops got to shot free or at greatly reduce cost but I never did ask.

All in all it is a nice outdoor range so I am also assuming that help drew them to it also

Mostly county cops at the range but one gentlemen was from the town of Medley if my memory is correct a very small police department.

0 Replies

Ora;;oy is correct on the point about the trigger mechanisms on their Glocks (or other sekected service pistoles). I didnt believe him either and so I ent and Googled the issue. Look up "New York Triggers" Apparently the NY trigger is a mechanism composed motly of a new stiffer (>5 lb pull) trigger spring and attachment mode (almost like a weld lock). Its to make the gun difficult for a small kid to shoot.
Typical f many of the safety requirement this i probably well intentioned but could have a negative effect for the cops using em.
Still, cops have the right to do discretionary gun selections so, all things being equal, I thinkI would choose a single action revolver or suitable calibre ere I in the thin blue line.

I am still a supporter of rwasonable gun control and I hope, with time, e as a "civilization" will make the bnecessary changes to the Constitution (Just because something is in the Constitution doesnt mean its right)

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Oralloy is correct on the point about the trigger mechanisms on their Glocks (or other selected service pistoles). I didnt believe him either and so I went and Googled the issue. I suggest that everyone Look up "New York Triggers" Apparently the NY trigger is a mechanism composed motly of a new stiffer (>5 lb pull) trigger spring and attachment mode (almost like a weld lock). Its to make the gun difficult for a small kid to shoot.
Typical of many of the safety requirement this is probably well intentioned but could have a negative effect for the cops using em.
Still, cops have the right to do discretionary gun selections so, all things being equal, I thinkI would choose a single action revolver of suitable calibre were I in the thin blue line. Such a gun makes praying and spraying an impossibility and makes "Aim in the center of mass"
an attaibable goal

I am still a supporter of rwasonable gun control and I hope, with time, e as a "civilization" will make the necessary changes to the Constitution (Just because something is in the Constitution doesnt mean its right). AS I submitted before, "Gun control" and "communiuty gun bans" arent a bad idea, its just that the areas with gun bans are ALL surrounded by areas where gun sales are there to serve needs for guns in those gun ban communities. SO, in reality, gun controls have NEVER had a decent trial as long as the gradients toward huuge gun warehouse and sales centers lie just outside the cities. ANY idiot can drive the few miles and, ussing an erzats buyer, can own for resale, as many guns as he wants

2 Replies

@farmerman,

Sorry a constitutional amendment need a great deal of more support to get pass then is going to happen in a nation of gun owners.

UK citizens might be happy that it pistol team need to leave the country in order to be able to practice but that is not going to happen here.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

revelette wrote:
Another shooting, not saying it could have been prevented by any tougher guns laws.

It could probably have been lessened by weaker gun regulations.

NYC is infested by whacko anti-gunners, and they force the NYPD to carry guns that are impossible to aim very well.

It is likely that the gunman only shot one person, a former co-worker, and then the NYPD shot everyone else in their attempts to shoot the gunman.

Get rid of the whacko anti-gun buffoonery, and the NYPD likely would not have shot so many people today.

Sure.. because if more armed bystanders had been there, they obviously would have been better trained than the police when it comes to discharging their weapons. Drunk

1 Reply

@vikorr,

vikorr wrote:

LMAO. Let's just say your claim that one States crime rate outweighs all the other States is so utterly ridiculous that there is nothing to debate...

I would not go so far as to say I was claiming it. It was a reply to your claim of a greater number of police shootings, and therefore premised on the notion that you had some idea what you were talking about.

But yes, crime rates in urban areas are usually greater than in rural areas.

And:

Quote:

Victoria is Australia's most densely populated state, and has a highly centralised population, with almost 75% of Victorians living in Melbourne, the state capital and largest city.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_%28Australia%29

vikorr wrote:

as is your paranoia...as is your circular reasoning...

No such paranoia, or circular reasoning.

vikorr wrote:

as is your inability to actually debate rather than spout 'the constitution says yadda, yadda, yadda'...

Look. The answer is no. Your deranged anti-freedom agenda is not going to be allowed in America. Deal with it.

vikorr wrote:

as are so many other of your irrational rantings.

Nothing irrational about me pointing out that your anti-freedom agenda will not be allowed in America.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Apparently the NY trigger is a mechanism composed motly of a new stiffer (>5 lb pull) trigger spring and attachment mode (almost like a weld lock).

The NYPD is required to use a 12 pound trigger.

farmerman wrote:

SO, in reality, gun controls have NEVER had a decent trial as long as the gradients toward huuge gun warehouse and sales centers lie just outside the cities. ANY idiot can drive the few miles and, ussing an erzats buyer, can own for resale, as many guns as he wants

Gun control can be compared from country to country.

There are nations with very few guns that have a homicide rate far in excess of the homicide rate of countries with lots of guns.

Overall, the stats show that gun control has a small impact on homicide rates, but only a small one.

But even if gun bans did make a real difference, our freedom will always be more important.

0 Replies

@parados,

parados wrote:

oralloy wrote:
revelette wrote:
Another shooting, not saying it could have been prevented by any tougher guns laws.

It could probably have been lessened by weaker gun regulations.

NYC is infested by whacko anti-gunners, and they force the NYPD to carry guns that are impossible to aim very well.

It is likely that the gunman only shot one person, a former co-worker, and then the NYPD shot everyone else in their attempts to shoot the gunman.

Get rid of the whacko anti-gun buffoonery, and the NYPD likely would not have shot so many people today.

Sure.. because if more armed bystanders had been there, they obviously would have been better trained than the police when it comes to discharging their weapons.

The question of armed bystanders is beside the point. But since you brought it up, as a matter of fact, given the guns the NYPD are required to use, armed bystanders would easily have shot better than the NYPD. Training would not make any difference.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

Oralloy - at least you tried to 'reason' in support of what was a truly irrational statement of yours (that one state would have more crime than all other Australian states combined)...but you still don't try and make it sound like you have a leg to stand on - Sydney in NSW has 1 million more people than Melbourne.

Quote:

No such paranoia

...and from the same post :

Quote:

Look. The answer is no. Your deranged anti-freedom agenda is not going to be allowed in America. Deal with it.

I'm Australian, and I'm just discussing things...as there is no possible link to me trying to change your constitution...you apparently see much more sinister motives & power than exists...and you come off as incredibly paranoid.

Quote:

Nothing irrational about me pointing out that your anti-freedom agenda will not be allowed in America.

Freedom isn't about doing whatever you want - that's anarchy. Freedom is a balance - a balance between the communities rights & expectations vs the individuals rights & expectations. Laws are (ideally) then made where that line is believed to exist. And punishments are given for breaking those - placing limits on what people can choose to do (ie limiting individual freedom).. Where that balance lies is what many people question, and it's a subjective answer...this sort of thing shouldn't need to be explained. Your view what constitutes anti-freedom further exhibit your paranoia and irrationality.

You are barely able to debate this - which isn't to say that particular people in the anti-regulation crowd aren't able to raise good arguments.

2 Replies

@vikorr,

I wonder - do you realise that it is people like you that strengthen peoples desire for regulation? No one likes an irrational person owning guns (even though that would be something rather difficult to ascertain in a legal sense)

3 Replies

@vikorr,

Quote:

do you realise that it is people like you that strengthen peoples desire for regulation? No one likes an irrational person owning guns

said as if the current state of mass fear and panic has any reasonable or rational explanation.

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
do you realise that it is people like you that strengthen peoples desire for regulation? No one likes an irrational person owning guns
said as if the current state of mass fear and panic has any reasonable or rational explanation.

Are you talking about the mass fear and panic that the UN is coming to take your guns away?

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

said as if the current state of mass fear and panic has any reasonable or rational explanation.

What mass fear and panic are you referring to?

1 Reply

@vikorr,

Quote:

What mass fear and panic are you referring to?

the elemental emotional state of most people i meet, who are Americans. our views on the economy and on men are two prime examples, but it applies to most eveything

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Ah hah...took me a while, but I see what you were referring to.

0 Replies

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