Gun Control and the Illusion of Security

@vikorr,

Oh I forgot Vikorr about another little problem with you plan.

The darknet and untraceable digit currents means that open markets can exist in those ban weapons beyond the ability of the government to control just as a very open online drug market had come into existed and are just a mouse click away now.

So if firearms that people wish to own are ban and therefore they can not just go to a gun shop any longer all they will need to do is boot their computers and order online.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

David as the 50 cal round give the ability of great range, however to achieved accuracy to make that range meaningfull, the gun need to be a work of art with everything machine to very high precision. That cost $$$$$$$$

To just throw together a tube that is just able to fire the round off with out bursting is kind silly as what the point to that?

There r Moslems making them at low prices,
(encroaching upon extant patents) in Pakistan n in Afganistan,
in towns with no electricity. Thay r not made out of GOLD.

Cud u make one at a decent price ?????????

0 Replies

@BillRM,

Quote:

Sorry try a hundred years maybe.............

whatever timeframe you would like to put on it. My point was that the eventual outcomes wouldn't occur immediately.

Quote:

So if firearms that people wish to own are ban and therefore they can not just go to a gun shop any longer all they will need to do is boot their computers and order online.

A few things : Gun control doesn't ban 'guns' - just particular types. Once enshrined in law, the majority of people are happy to abide by those restrictions (because they can still get guns, and they have no real need for military grade weaponry).

The longer such goes on - the more people realise it doesn't really affect their way of life, the more compliance there will be.

The difference between guns & drugs is metal. Metal is much easier to detect than drugs.

The market for drugs is bigger (for many reasons, including drugs are a completely consumable product, parties occur much more frequently than gun parties, many drugs are addictive etc).

Ordering online for illegal products isn't a favoured method, because it's traceable to the address you request it sent to.

I'm sure that many will say 'but what about'...and there are ways around just about every product that is illegal...that doesn't mean specific objects shouldn't be illegal. So in terms of specific types of guns...the same subjectivity would be applied.

2 Replies

@vikorr,

vikorr wrote:

A few things : Gun control doesn't ban 'guns' - just particular types.

That's still a gun ban. And if you try to ban a type of gun that people have the right to have, that's unconstitutional.

You keep forgetting that Americans are not serfs. Americans have actual rights, and you are NOT allowed to violate those rights.

vikorr wrote:

Once enshrined in law, the majority of people are happy to abide by those restrictions (because they can still get guns, and they have no real need for military grade weaponry).

The longer such goes on - the more people realise it doesn't really affect their way of life, the more compliance there will be.

You have no idea what America is like. We Americans will never give up our freedom. Ever.

1 Reply

Pa is one of the most densely populated "Sportsmen" states. We have the record for the largest black bears taken in the US (Good game mnagement), YET we dont encourage these mountain top to mountain top shots that oralloy seems to make as a condition for owning and using a Barret.
We are also one of a few states whose yearly "harvest" of dead hunters is pretty high also. WHY?==There are a few reasons, the top few have to do with guns and the last few have to do with hunter cardiovascular systems

1.hunters who dont consider where their bullets go if they miss.(2010 harcest was 6 hunters shot dead. I alays wondered whether these guys tag their bags)

2, Hunters who use overpowered loads for extended range

3. Dumb camo dress codes (two years ago a hunter was shot and harvested as a black bear cause he was earing a "hoodie" overtop hus camo
4. Out of shape hunters who just look forward to dying of heart attacks.

One of the reasons I dont go abroad into the mountains a lot in big game seasons in Pa. If I have to do some project work I am a blaze of hunter orange and e;ectric green (Theres always some hunters out there who are colorblind to varuious hues)
I only go for small game and duck nd goose. (I can take a Cheney hit but not a slug from a MAnlicker or 3006)

2 Replies

@vikorr,

Quote:

The difference between guns & drugs is metal. Metal is much easier to detect than drugs.

You got to be kidding me we import millions of tons of metal every year and now at great cost we search one or two percent of all cargo coming into the nation.

Metal in a gun is not going to stand out in in a shipment of pipes or farm equipment or whatever..........

Shipping addresses is a weakness that why people use drop off sites now for other illegal goods.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Pa is one of the most densely populated "Sportsmen" states. We have the record for the largest black bears taken in the US (Good game mnagement), YET we dont encourage these mountain top to mountain top shots that oralloy seems to make as a condition for owning and using a Barret.

There are no necessary conditions for an American to own or use a .50 BMG rifle.

If they choose to own or use one, they have the right to do so. There is no requirement for them to justify that choice.

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@farmerman,

Hell in the 1960s living in PA I remember sane people did not go near the woods during hunting season with special note of the first day as every tree seems to had a short sighted hunter in it looking to bag a deer.

The deaths toll of these once a year hunters seems at times greater then the deaths toll of the deers.

Not to mention bullets holes in people cars and homes near the woods.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Another shooting, not saying it could have been prevented by any tougher guns laws. From early reports, it was started from a dispute in the workplace and not related to terrorism or a mass shooter.

Quote:

Empire State Building Shooting: Multiple Wounded After Gunman Opens Fire

NEW YORK (AP) -- Law enforcement officials in New York City say at least four people have been shot outside the Empire State Building in violence that stemmed from a workplace dispute, and that the gunman has been killed by police.

source

2 Replies

@oralloy,

vikorr wrote:

A few things : Gun control doesn't ban 'guns' - just particular types.

oralloy wrote:

That's still a gun ban. And if you try to ban a type of gun that people have the right to have, that's unconstitutional.

You keep forgetting that Americans are not serfs. Americans have actual rights, and you are NOT allowed to violate those rights.

WELL SAID!
Another way to put the point
is that when the Republic was created,
government's existence was accepted, subject to certain conditions.

Some things, designated in Amendments 1 thru 1O, were put beyond the reach of government's jurisdiction.

The Founders were very acutely aware
that personal freedom and government jurisdiction are INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL.

David

0 Replies

@revelette,

revelette wrote:

Another shooting, not saying it could have been prevented by any tougher guns laws.
From early reports, it was started from a dispute in the workplace and not related to terrorism or a mass shooter.

Quote:
Empire State Building Shooting: Multiple Wounded After Gunman Opens Fire

NEW YORK (AP) -- Law enforcement officials in New York City say at least four people have been shot outside the Empire State Building in violence that stemmed from a workplace dispute, and that the gunman has been killed by police.

source

This shud be regarded the same as traffic accidents; just part of life,
except that thay are a lot less common than traffic collisions.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Pretty callous.

1 Reply

@revelette,

Oh dear.

Well, at least Bill makes some good points.

0 Replies

@revelette,

revelette wrote:

Another shooting, not saying it could have been prevented by any tougher guns laws.

It could probably have been lessened by weaker gun regulations.

NYC is infested by whacko anti-gunners, and they force the NYPD to carry guns that are impossible to aim very well.

It is likely that the gunman only shot one person, a former co-worker, and then the NYPD shot everyone else in their attempts to shoot the gunman.

Get rid of the whacko anti-gun buffoonery, and the NYPD likely would not have shot so many people today.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

Yes the cops seems now to be train to spray and pray with their what 17 rounds clips?

They should go back to revolvers and be train to hit what they are aiming at with a round or two not full the air with bullets going only roughly in the directions of the targets.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Yes the cops seems now to be train to spray and pray with their what 17 rounds clips?

It isn't the training exactly. The anti-gunners force the NYPD to use guns that are nearly impossible to aim.

The NRA protects you and me from the anti-gunners, but no one protects the NYPD.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Police 9 mm is harder to aim then any other semi-auto pistol such as the good old model 1911 a 45?

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

Yes the cops seems now to be train to spray and pray with their what 17 rounds clips?

They should go back to revolvers and be train to hit what they are aiming at with a round or two not full the air with bullets going only roughly in the directions of the targets.

From what I understand, the point of multiple shots isn't the hope that 'at least one of them will hit the target'. I saw an FBI recreation video of a shootout involving some of their officers - it claimed that one of the crims kept going (firing shots) for 2min after being shot through the heart (with a 9mm I think it was).

But tougher pass standards for hitting a target is always good, especially for police officers.

That said - someone made the point that 'anti-gun results in more shootings'. In Australia, the Victorian coppers are known for shooting more crims than (likely) the rest of the States combined (there's only 6 other states). It appears that's because their training standards are much higher, and they are hitting what they aim at, rather than any other factor. I don't however, recall what sort of guns they use.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Police 9 mm is harder to aim then any other semi-auto pistol such as the good old model 1911 a 45?

The caliber doesn't matter. Back in the 1990s, the anti-gunners got NYC to mandate that the triggers on all NYPD guns be modified to make them extremely difficult to pull.

It was sort of a consolation prize after the NRA defeated their effort to impose the same trigger pull requirement on all guns across the US.

It takes so much effort now to pull the trigger on one of the NYPD's guns, that the point of the gun is almost always moved off-target by the act of pulling the trigger.

0 Replies

@vikorr,

vikorr wrote:

That said - someone made the point that 'anti-gun results in more shootings'.

No. Whacky gun control measures lead to more innocent bystanders being shot by the police.

You see, the NRA protects me from lunatic gun banners. But no one protects the NYPD from lunatic gun banners.

So the NYPD is often forced to comply with nonsensical schemes, like the one that makes it impossible to aim their guns when they shoot.

vikorr wrote:

In Australia, the Victorian coppers are known for shooting more crims than (likely) the rest of the States combined (there's only 6 other states). It appears that's because their training standards are much higher, and they are hitting what they aim at, rather than any other factor.

Probably due mostly to there being more crime there.

1 Reply

Gun Control and the Illusion of Security

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