Would you buy your tween son a "Playboy"?

I was taught about the anatomy of sex and reproduction at the age of five, in kindergarten. I guess it had an influence on me, though I wouldn't call it a European thing. Rather, I think it reflects the hippy-ish, countercultural-ish, mid-seventies policies of my kindergarten, and the liberal university-town values of my parents for putting me there.

My first exposure to Playboy came at the age of eight, when a neighbor's boy my age disovered his father's stash. I don't think it had a deep impact on my views about women. But that was the 1970s. As Sozobe points out, boobs and body hair were more natural in the porn of those days, so I can't speak to the crazy-body hypothesis. We were both living in a newly-erected neighborhood for university people, where the grownups belonged to roughly the same culture as my parents. I think it likely that my neighbor's father didn't take pains to hide his Playboy stash.

Oddly enough, my parents were squeamish when it came to talking about homosexuals. They didn't know any (as far as they knew), and hadn't yet gotten past the visceral "ick" reaction they'd inherited from their parents' generation. So on this topic, I was on my own, and was misled by schoolyard rumors to hold some serious prejudices and believe some disgusting urban legends.

Here's an example of the consequences. I remember checking out a new little bookstore in Munich, where I had just started studying physics. It featured an eclectic collection of Thomas Mann novels, Tchaikovsky records, Rock Hudson videotapes, and other offerings that interested me. Suddenly, I realized that this was a gay-pride bookstore. My face turned tomato-red, and I ran, not walked, out of the store, feeling soiled. It wasn't until later in my college years that I developed a more mature attitude about gay people.

I wish my parents had been as enlightened about homosexuality as they were about everything else related to sex. That's how I know by direct comparison that I prefer clarity over mystification. Does that answer your question?


Yes --- starting with grownups. Prostitution is legal but regulated as a hazardous profession, freeing police to concentrate on prosecuting sex slavery and leaving willing prostitutes alone. Also, there are condom vending machines in every public restroom, and state-sponsored condom commercials in every cinema.

And from there it trickles down to the way Germans educate children. Everyone gets sex education in 5th-or6th-grade biology. If your parent won't answer your sex questions, just go to your teacher. But your parents probably will answer your questions truthfully. Incidentally (NOT, imho!), the rate of teenage pregnancies, abortions, etc, is a tiny fraction in Germany of what it is in America. People who think abortions are the new Holocaust must face the fact that prudishness kills --- especially their prudishness, more likely than not.

No I don't, and it isn't. Unlike sex, violence of some level is a routine occurrence on every schoolyard in the world.


Now that's just silly.


It's a free country. If you want to be alarmed, go ahead and be alarmed.

boom, re the show me book.

I just don't know....when my girlfriend and I saw it, we were, maybe 17, 18. It wasn't like we had the concerns of a parent, and we liked to think of ourselves as liberal teens as far as sex, drugs and rock and roll.

but....it was really oogy....just really unsettling. I truly cannot say it was because we happened to be Americans.
IMHO, there was something wrong and unsettling about it, seeing children like that, touching each other, etc.

and that's all I remember from just looking at it for a max of 90 seconds.


here's the link to amazon where they are selling old copies for over $100, the review page...even the positive ones include comments about the content that makes one question....

http://www.amazon.com/Show-Me-Picture-Children-Parents/product-reviews/0312722753/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Yes it does. And thank you for discussing it.

I can't agree more that prudishness kills.

With Mo, we've really approached sex as a health issue (which it is) that can have long lasting consequences -- good and bad consequences, just like every other health decision.

My own parents were not good about talking to us about sex (thank heaven for big sisters) but they always made time for each other and they were always very affectionate with each other. And they were always affectionate with us -- their children. I wish they had been more forthcoming and I suppose that's why I don't see the mystery as a good thing.

I totally get the "ick" factor from the way the book is described.

BUT it also sounds like a pretty good way to have your kid explore the topic. At least it isn't photos of naked adults.

First, I don't believe that I made that claim. In fact, I stated that an anatomy book would probably be a good thing to have when discussing this issue.

What I said is that the kid is not asking about what "turns him on." From the info we were provided, it appears that he's just asking about Playboy.

IMO, the first thing that should happen is that the adult should ask what the kid already knows, and what he wants to know. If all the kid wants to know is that it's a magazine with nude women, then that might be the end of the conversation. It might not.

As I said before, if it didn't end the conversation, I'd probably get a book on art history and a book on anatomy, and be prepared to discuss either the human body in art, or reproductive sex, or both.

It would not be a discussion of recreational sex, beyond a mention that sex can be enjoyable, because I don't think that would be age appropriate.




There's the story about the little girl who goes to her mom and asks, "where did I come from?" and the mom sits down and describes conception, pregnancy, and birth. The little girl then says, "Mary says she comes from Wisconsin. Where do I come from?"

So appropriate to this thread.....

Today Mo caught his first good look at boobs in the wild. He couldn't wait to get home and share the story with me....

It's hot here. 102 degrees today. This doesn't happen in Oregon.

We don't have air conditioning.

Mr. B decided to take Mo floating on the Clackamas river while I came home to wrap the comforting arms of Benedryl around me to fight off the scourge of Cottonwood.

While they were floating down an isolated stretch of the river a canoe came around the bend with two young topless girls aboard.

"Most excellent" says Mo.



Forget Playboy. Go canoeing!

This is the beginning to how he becomes a world champion canoeist.

Good for Mo! For years the best I could manage was a peek down an unguarded blouse.

As to the OP, I don't think educating your child about sex, which I think is a parent's duty, need necessarily involve even soft porn. And giving the legal issues, I'd avoid it. An anatomy book or just drawing with a pencil and paper while you explain should do the trick.

And I would choose, and indeed DID choose to educate my children about sex without the help of Playboy.
It has nothing to do with me being a prude- it has to do with me actually HATING the idea and concept of young women selling their sexuality and bodies, as if that's all they are and have to offer.

I didn't and don't want my son to look at women as if they are 'on offer' as a commodity and that's what Playboy presents women as being.
And I DO know that - as I said, because I used to look at them with my friends when I'd be at their house. I remember my friend Helene's Dad had a stash of Screw - remember that magazine? That's the first time I knew that women even were supposed to HAVE pubic hair - which means that I didn't have any yet= which means I must have been nine or ten - maybe eleven...
I asked Helene what it was and she laughed and laughed and told everyone at school the next day, 'Rebecca doesn't even know that ladies have hair on their vaginas!' (I don't think she knew it was called 'pubic hair' yet).

But it wasn't traumatizing or anything - I laugh about it to this day.

My mom and dad did educate us - we had a little pink book about sex and reproduction that they went over with us. Frank Elm told me that some boys like boys and some girls like girls - and that's how I learned about homosexuality. I was about ten. I was fine with it.

I am not a prude. I used to just get in the tub to bathe my children (one at a time) until they were two or three to save water and time. We've been to topless beaches with them - not on purpose - but we didn't leave when the ladies took off their tops - funny thing is, it was mostly old ladies who were taking off their tops and I think my husband did want to leave...(seriously), but it was a nice beach and the water was warm, so we stayed.

I wouldn't say, 'No - I won't buy you a Playboy,' without also telling him why, so my son WOULD still be getting educated about how sad it is to see women using their bodies and having their bodies be used as a commodity, so yeah - he'd be getting educated as to what I thought and believed about that.

If he then wanted to find out about bodies and sex in THAT PARTICULAR WAY- he'd have to do it on his own. Which, actually, he later did.

I did find pornography in his room on two or three occasions. I didn't flip out - he was a teenager and I thought it was normal.
But I also didn't go out and buy it for his next birthday just because I knew he liked looking at it.
As Finn pointed out - that's what a friend might do - not a mother.
In fact, how weird would it be for a mother to do that?
I'm not saying this mom is doing that same thing, I'm just reiterating the point that different people have different roles in a child's life and for me, the most important role was instilling morals and values.

And the nonobjectification of women - even if they do it to or allow it to be done themselves- is something I wanted my son to get from me.


Just like this year, he asked me for a plane ticket to the Bahamas for his birthday so he could party with his friends. I said, 'No - I think you party enough. What I WILL do is give you some money for you to then use as you see fit.'
You might see this as doing the same thing - but I don't. I see it as me letting him make his own decisions and taking responsibility for them.

And I agree with Chai's take on this actually. Sometimes people who are outside a situation are more objective.

I didn't say this mother shouldn't buy HER tween son a Playboy. I answered the question which was, 'Would you buy YOUR tween son a Playboy'?

And I wouldn't. Because I wouldn't want my daughter to pose for playboy and sell herself that way, so I certainly won't contribute to an industry where someone else's daughter is displaying herself and allowing herself to be used as a commodity.
End of story.

In other words you are a prude. If you dont like it then say "it is not for me"....dont slam those who do choose to enter into the transaction. Try running your own life and stop trying to run others.

I 'd let him buy his OWN Playboy.





David

And you're an idiot.

I don't care if people look at naked people. I just don't like the idea of young girls thinking they are nothing without their pretty face and big boobs, and boys being taught that since they think that of themselves, and others have made them a billion dollar business - it must be true .

You JUST slammed women who sell themselves on PLayboy, so dont act like you dont care.

Okay, Hawkeye - here's the definition of 'prude':

'A person who is or claims to be easily shocked by matters relating to sex or nudity.'

I've said at least three times on this thread now that it is NOT the nudity that shocks or bothers me. And sex certainly doesn't shock or bother me- for myself or for others.

What bothers me - (but doesn't shock me) - about Playboy and other magazines like it is that it offers women and their bodies as a commodity- something to be bought and sold and traded upon.

Yes, of course it's their choice to do this and I would never take that choice from them.
But it is MY choice not to participate in that trade and to teach my son that women are more than their bodies by telling him why I WON'T participate in it - even just to show him a naked body.

I'd rather take him to a nude beach - AND in fact he's been on one with me, his father and his sister (clothing optional actually - I remained clothed as did he and his father and sister).

So **** off - you have no idea what you're talking about.

You wrote,

ROFL

To take their pictures. Do you know anything about the fashion industry?

Yep. Do you know anything about the celebrity industry? Jenny McCarthy was in last months mag, trying to revive her career after a long spell off popping put babies. It is all about merchandising their looks. Americans used to be practical, we used to champion resourcefulness, we should be saluting these chicks..

I trust what what really has Aidan pissed off is that men still want women because they are hot, rather than for their brains....or some nonsense like that. Really who gives a ****, 95% of the battle is being wanted, being picky on why tags one as being stuck up.

I'm not pissed off...at all. I understand pornography is a fact of life. I'm just saying that I wouldn't support it or encourage either of my children to support it.
If they or anyone else chooses to support it - that's their business.
I can only take responsibility for MY actions and I wouldn't buy my son a playboy to show him a woman's body - am I not allowed to answer the question the way I choose to answer it?

If YOU want to or Thomas or Drewdad or this lady in the situation who's asking the question wants t0 - more power to you all and god bless- I hope it works out well for you.

I don't give a crap what you do with your life or your kids' lives, as long as it's not abusive or neglectful and doesn't hurt anyone else.

I didn't say it would damage this boy to buy him a playboy - all I said is that I wouldn't buy it for my son and gave my reasons why.

Get a clue and stop putting words in my mouth.

And before you surmise that I'm ugly and that's why I'm jealous- (if I WERE jealous and I'm NOT) - you'd be wrong about that too- so save your **** for someone else.
I'm very happy with the combination of looks and brains I got- worked out just about as well as I could have hoped for me.